It's absolutely fucken disgusting, and cops have been doing it here for 20 years. But 5 years ago people took revenge on the cops, they shoot them !
I was run of the road and slammed into a wall as a teenager for riding a dirt bike around our farm, and i ,also had a cop ride into the back of a friend of mine because he wasn't watching the road, she had her neck broken, another mate was hit by a cop car racing to a New Years Eve party, he was drunk and veered to the left and struck my mate, killing him. I was standing right next to him ! These cops were never Punished.

They have been shooting cops here for a while, these guys are now shit scared to mess with bikers and the suicide rate in the police force is around 40%. if they fuck with you and you don't have a gun on you, you kick down and go, but never stop.
If it's a routine check we stop, if it's two clowns and an attitude, you resort to the tactics mentioned earlier. The cops in this country are nothing but a Crime Syndicate.

In the latest incident 3 cops were found dead on the side of the road. We have about 15- 20 cop deaths per month, traffic is a bitch, but they were not doing shit anyway so rather that, than KILLER COPS.

 

I can see this one starting heated debates. A co-worker of mine got squeezed against parked cars by a NYC unmarked car once. I understand that if you are skilled enough you can out run the cops, which is just dumb to me, but for them to use their cars as barricades! I don't think I'm for that one even if it is difficult to catch the guy. Anyone can get these bikes up to speed real quick but not all know how to stop them as fast.

It's a catch 22, if you let them go they will keep doing it and can hurt someone someday but its not a reason to escalate the situation to the point of death. I'm glad I'm not in their shoes, I don't know how you LEOs handle it everyday. :hl (to the good ones of course )

 

I can see this one starting heated debates. A co-worker of mine got squeezed against parked cars by a NYC unmarked car once. I understand that if you are skilled enough you can out run the cops, which is just dumb to me, but for them to use their cars as barricades! I don't think I'm for that one even if it is difficult to catch the guy. Anyone can get these bikes up to speed real quick but not all know how to stop them as fast.

It's a catch 22, if you let them go they will keep doing it and can hurt someone someday but its not a reason to escalate the situation to the point of death. I'm glad I'm not in their shoes, I don't know how you LEOs handle it everyday. :hl (to the good ones of course )

There really needs to be better guidlines and training. I get the feeling they have no direction and some cops will kill a biker... where as another cop my not and choose patients and available resources to catch such a biker. Should life and death decisions be handles so liberly.. especially when the cops own life was not forced into jeapordy

 

especially considering NYC's war on sportbikes.

I tell ya, the city is one or two big lawsuits away from having to sell all of it's property to pay the settlements to a pair of riders. Where is the AMA/ACLU???

I don't think it's appropriate for cops to kill bikers who run. I also don't think bikers should run, because it fucks with the rest of us, who stop.

So both sides should give in this instance. We as a group have to reduce the amount of bullshit, and they as an institution have to do less to induce us into acting that way.

 

There really needs to be better guidlines and training. I get the feeling they have no direction and some cops will kill a biker... where as another cop my not and choose patients and available resources to catch such a biker. Should life and death decisions be handles so liberly.. especially when the cops own life was not forced into jeapordy

It does seem like stress training needs to be revamped for the NYPD. I sympathize with the overworked and overstressed guys out there. Your point is a valid one, cops should not be executioners (to protect and to serve I think it is), I just pray I never have a run in with that type!

 

When all else fails, natures rules apply, Treat others as you would like to be Treated or Live by the Sword Die by the Sword !!

 

There'll always be 2 sides to the story.. I ain't gettin on either side.

RIP Hinton.. Wish you knew better to not ride when you had 16 suspensions on your license and an open warrant.. is all I want to say.

 

Murder? Execution? Cops deliberately killing bikers?

Gracious.

The only way, in my mind, that those characterizations could be at all accurate is if the SUV were aligned properly with traffic and the police officer opened his door causing the biker to collide with it.

Even then I would suspect it was more bad luck/timing than deliberate "murder".

Obviously, I'm not a cop, but I'll wager that SOPs were followed in this case.

I wouldn't be surprised if, somewhere in the big book of NYPD law, it says that, if someone tries to run from a routine traffic stop, you pursue. Because, frankly, law-abiding citizens with nothing to hide don't run when the red'n'blues go on. We might want to, but we don't.

I also wouldn't be surprised if, somewhere else in that big book o law, it gives guidelines for pursuit. If the perp does X, the cops do Y. If he does A, the cops do B. If traffic conditions are ...., do ....., etc.

And I'll bet that somewhere you'll find that setting up a barricade is perfectly normal... and probably one of the only courses of action in the case of a motorcycle.

What would you prefer they had done? Stop-stick him at 100 mph?! Now that would be tantamount to murder. At least with a big, SUV-sized barricade the guy had a chance to stop.

Or perhaps they should have waited until he ran out of gas, allowing him to endanger any other drivers on the road? Or just let him go?

I'm not naive enough to think that all cops are great, upstanding folks but they're not all bike-hating bastards, either. And, even with the current anti-sportbike sentiment in NYC, the PD isn't going to allow their officers to just wantonly "murder" bikers because, as someone noted, to do so would expose them to lawsuit after lawsuit.

This guy wasn't "murdered". He made some stupid decisions that, unfortunately, got him into a situation where he got killed.

 

Murder? Execution? Cops deliberately killing bikers?

Gracious.

The only way, in my mind, that those characterizations could be at all accurate is if the SUV were aligned properly with traffic and the police officer opened his door causing the biker to collide with it.

Even then I would suspect it was more bad luck/timing than deliberate "murder".

Obviously, I'm not a cop, but I'll wager that SOPs were followed in this case.

I wouldn't be surprised if, somewhere in the big book of NYPD law, it says that, if someone tries to run from a routine traffic stop, you pursue. Because, frankly, law-abiding citizens with nothing to hide don't run when the red'n'blues go on. We might want to, but we don't.

I also wouldn't be surprised if, somewhere else in that big book o law, it gives guidelines for pursuit. If the perp does X, the cops do Y. If he does A, the cops do B. If traffic conditions are ...., do ....., etc.

And I'll bet that somewhere you'll find that setting up a barricade is perfectly normal... and probably one of the only courses of action in the case of a motorcycle.

What would you prefer they had done? Stop-stick him at 100 mph?! Now that would be tantamount to murder. At least with a big, SUV-sized barricade the guy had a chance to stop.

Or perhaps they should have waited until he ran out of gas, allowing him to endanger any other drivers on the road? Or just let him go?

I'm not naive enough to think that all cops are great, upstanding folks but they're not all bike-hating bastards, either. And, even with the current anti-sportbike sentiment in NYC, the PD isn't going to allow their officers to just wantonly "murder" bikers because, as someone noted, to do so would expose them to lawsuit after lawsuit.

This guy wasn't "murdered". He made some stupid decisions that, unfortunately, got him into a situation where he got killed.

uh-oh, I think you just created the spark for this fire!

 

In response to Shalihe 74

That might be correct for your area, but here the courts don't work, and if you have no rights, you wouldn't stop either, believe me.

If they had to chase him, they were a bigger threat than he was, so what justifies their behavior, and how and why are they not punished !

If they had used skilled police work , it could have ended with him alive.

But thats not as much fun is it, so until all are judged equally, a gun and a badge give you the right to hide behind the law, and murder the public.

It's time the people remind the police and government who they work for, us the people!

 

uh-oh, I think you just created the spark for this fire!

That's fine. I thoroughly enjoy a proper argument.

 

Murder? Execution? Cops deliberately killing bikers?

Gracious.

The only way, in my mind, that those characterizations could be at all accurate is if the SUV were aligned properly with traffic and the police officer opened his door causing the biker to collide with it.

Even then I would suspect it was more bad luck/timing than deliberate "murder".

Obviously, I'm not a cop, but I'll wager that SOPs were followed in this case.

I wouldn't be surprised if, somewhere in the big book of NYPD law, it says that, if someone tries to run from a routine traffic stop, you pursue. Because, frankly, law-abiding citizens with nothing to hide don't run when the red'n'blues go on. We might want to, but we don't.

I also wouldn't be surprised if, somewhere else in that big book o law, it gives guidelines for pursuit. If the perp does X, the cops do Y. If he does A, the cops do B. If traffic conditions are ...., do ....., etc.

And I'll bet that somewhere you'll find that setting up a barricade is perfectly normal... and probably one of the only courses of action in the case of a motorcycle.

What would you prefer they had done? Stop-stick him at 100 mph?! Now that would be tantamount to murder. At least with a big, SUV-sized barricade the guy had a chance to stop.

Or perhaps they should have waited until he ran out of gas, allowing him to endanger any other drivers on the road? Or just let him go?

I'm not naive enough to think that all cops are great, upstanding folks but they're not all bike-hating bastards, either. And, even with the current anti-sportbike sentiment in NYC, the PD isn't going to allow their officers to just wantonly "murder" bikers because, as someone noted, to do so would expose them to lawsuit after lawsuit.

This guy wasn't "murdered". He made some stupid decisions that, unfortunately, got him into a situation where he got killed.

Shalihe, you are an excellent writer. Seriously. I was a writing major just 2 years back in college... I have a true appreciation for it.

 

"This guy wasn't "murdered". He made some stupid decisions that, unfortunately, got him into a situation where he got killed."

People break the law all day long, but it doesn't end with a cop, a car and a death !!

 

In response to Shalihe 74

That might be correct for your area, but here the courts don't work, and if you have no rights, you wouldn't stop either, believe me.

You're right. In a corrupt society, I would not put my faith in the institutions of government and law. Indeed, I have been in situations where I have had to make that decision. However, the US is less corrupt than many places - South Africa included, and, as such, one hopes one can put some faith in rule-of-law.

If they had to chase him, they were a bigger threat than he was, so what justifies their behavior, and how and why are they not punished !

I don't follow your logic here, I'm afraid. Are implying that large police cars with flashing lights and sirens - which we are trained, as drivers, to give way to - driven by people who, presumably, have had training in high-speed situations present more of a danger to the surrounding cars than a single, small (e.g. difficult-to-see and hear) motorcyclist, likely travelling at the edge (or beyond) his skill?

I'm inclined to disagree.

And, as Lotus pointed out, the officers [probably] did not know what manner of record this fellow had. Sure, it may be merely traffic violations, but he may also have a violent history. If that were the case, is it not more dangerous to let him go? And if they did let him go, and he went on to commit a violent crime - would they not be chastised by the public and their superiors for allowing a criminal to get away?

If they had used skilled police work , it could have ended with him alive.

Oh? Do share. I'm truly curious to know what manner of skilled police work could have influenced his decision to run?

But thats not as much fun is it, so until all are judged equally, a gun and a badge give you the right to hide behind the law, and murder the public.

It's time the people remind the police and government who they work for, us the people!

With no disrespect intended, I'm afraid I don't agree with the vaguely anarchist sentiment presented here and honestly think your perceptions may be colored by the fact that you do live in a relatively corrupt society. (And, for the record, I'm basing my perception of relative corruption on Transparency International's CPI.)

One must remember that the police often are working for the good of the people, plural, even when there are negative consequences for a person, single.

*shrug* Just my 2 cents on the issue. As Fazal has said, there are (at least) two sides to every story, a fact which people often forget when they become emotional.

All that having been said, I managed to spend money even while arguing on the internet, and I now need to go pick up my new armoire and get my weekend started. :wave

 

Shalihe, you are an excellent writer. Seriously. I was a writing major just 2 years back in college... I have a true appreciation for it.

Why, thank you. I guess all that money I've spent on skoolin' hasn't gone to waste.

 

No argument for me... You run, you're an idiot...
He didn't deserve to die from it, but to assume that the police killed him is also taking a leap.

 

And, as Lotus pointed out, the officers [probably] did not know what manner of record this fellow had. Sure, it may be merely traffic violations, but he may also have a violent history. If that were the case, is it not more dangerous to let him go? And if they did let him go, and he went on to commit a violent crime - would they not be chastised by the public and their superiors for allowing a criminal to get away?

Wow this is really scary to me... are we now to assume anyone who runs is a violent criminal and guilty of such a crime that lethal force should be used. No no.. not in this country. Really think about that notion. I don't want cops making those determinations. Let the courts decide and convict for the punishments. What if you don't notice and hear the cop right away... do you want some young cop to just say oh well they must be a violent criminal and didnt stop... hit the wheel.

If you run on foot for anything at all are you assumed guilty and should be immediately shot? Well knocking over a bike is about as deadly as taking a bullet in my opinion. Your odds are really bad? Outside of a dangerous violent criminal trying to escape they cannot use deadly force to apprehend. Deadly force should be for that or when they are physically endangered themselves.

The only way, in my mind, that those characterizations could be at all accurate is if the SUV were aligned properly with traffic and the police officer opened his door causing the biker to collide with it.

So deliberately swerving your vehicle in to a bike causing a collision and knocking a bike over dosen't? Eeek. You are one forgiving girl.

If they had used skilled police work , it could have ended with him alive

I agree! Like follow him longer... call ahead to other cops... proper baracades ... Aviation Unit theres alot of tools they have. Bumping a bike should not be the main one. They do it cause it's easy and quick. Poor reasons to take a life.

They are much more considerate when chasing cars and don't resort to such methods unless it is really warranted. With the bike they just get pissed or frustrated and figure hey Ill just run into them and that's it especially since they are much faster or manueverable. Should that be the decision process.

The question is simple.... Should it be common practice to knock bikes down as a mean to stopping them for traffic violations?

If they are running from a violent crime scene then they should do whatever they need to apprehend.. no argument here from me on that.

 

Well you may be able to write but can you read,

1st point, a car at high speed is a bigger threat than a motorcycle ! fact.
I also said what gives them the right to break the law and no one else !

2nd point, I did not say skilled police work made him run. I said skilled police work could have ended this situation without DEATH !

3rd point, My perceptions are not colored, they are fact, come see for yourself !

I notice you avoid the real topics, are you a lawyer or studying to be ?

The question is, and i reiterate, IS IT RIGHT ???

And the answer is NO !

 

All that having been said, I managed to spend money even while arguing on the internet, and I now need to go pick up my new armoire and get my weekend started.

Typical, busy shopping and lost the plot ?

 

seems ok to me

after all, you're just speculating as to what happened, all you know is "passenger door"

his driving history and pattern of behavior indicates to me that he has no regard for the lives of motorists around him, or pedestrians for that matter

last i checked, lights and sirens say pull over, not accelerate to over 100mph

rather him than someone else

 

I won't take sides on this one, but I do have a similar story. Taken from The Washington Post............

Buy Page Print Printer Friendly

Officer Hurt, Biker Dies in Crash
[FINAL Edition]
The Washington Post - Washington, D.C.
Author: Allison Klein - Washington Post Staff Writer
Date: May 26, 2006
Section: METRO
Document Types: News
Text Word Count: 211
A fiery, late-night collision between a motorcycle and a Prince George's County police cruiser killed the motorcyclist, critically wounded his passenger and left an officer with severe burns.
It happened about 11:30 p.m. Wednesday in the 12900 block of Route 1 in Laurel.
Police did not release the names of those involved in the crash but said the man who died was 30 and lived in Laurel. His passenger, a 25-year-old woman, was in critical condition yesterday.
The patrol officer has been on the force for eight years. He was in a hospital yesterday with second- and third-degree burns, said Cpl. Diane Richardson, a police spokeswoman. The officer was on duty at the time of the crash, she said.
The motorcyclist and his passenger were traveling south on Route 1 on a 2006 Kawasaki when they collided with the cruiser. The cruiser flipped over and burst into flames. The motorcycle and its driver ended up under the cruiser. It was unclear which vehicle caught fire first, Richardson said.
Police said authorities are investigating whether the speed of the motorcycle played a role in the collision.
"We're still in the process of collecting evidence," Richardson said. "We haven't been able to interview the officer or young lady."
Credit: Washington Post Staff Writer
Reproduced with permission of the copyright owner. Further reproduction or distribution is prohibited without permission.

The biker is balling out, having a history of running, triple digits speeds, and crashing, not necessarily all at the same time though. So, as the story goes, cop #1 sees the biker balling out and calls up to cop #2. Cop #2 sees the biker approaching quickly and he decides to pull out from his hiding spot to "slow him down". Well, he slowed him down all right. The biker hit the back of the cruiser ( I don't know if it was a Crown Vic, or the smaller Impala ) and caused it to flip onto it's roof, and subsequently burst into flames. Please notice that the rider ended up UNDERNEATH the cruiser. I was outraged and quite annoyed when a mutual friend of the dead rider and me relayed the story that I had been hearing about in the news.

 

1st point, a car at high speed is a bigger threat than a motorcycle ! fact.
I also said what gives them the right to break the law and no one else !

huh? :head AFAIK the police here aren't here to break the law. See a difference.. the police HERE

2nd point, I did not say skilled police work made him run. I said skilled police work could have ended this situation without DEATH !

pray tell, explain, how exactly are you going to stop a guy with 16 suspensions on his license and an open warrant, trying to run away from the police? You ever see the result of ppl runnign away from cops?

3rd point, My perceptions are not colored, they are fact, come see for yourself !

It's unfortunate you have to live in the conditions you are in right now, that doesn't mean it's the same everywhere. In fact, YOU should come down here and see for yourself, instead :wink:

Well you may be able to write but can you read, ....
I notice you avoid the real topics, are you a lawyer or studying to be ?

Hey now! :evil: .. the others didn't make it personal did they? They wrote what they feel like, without necessarily making personal remarks and you should respond as civilized-ly(huh?) as possible. Keep it off personal attacks and this will not degnerate into a monkey-poo slingfest :2tu..

The question is, and i reiterate, IS IT RIGHT ???

And the answer is NO !

Is what right? :? we'll never know what exactly happened. The cop's could be wrong, the biker could be wrong.. but yes unfortunately a life is(was) lost.

I'm not going to comment on the actual story itself.. GAAWWD I HATE FUCKING ARGUMENTS OVER THE INTARWEBZ.

Thank you and have a great weekend :2tu

 

Typical, busy shopping and lost the plot ?

Now now.. I guess you posted this before I could post my thoughts.. so I'll let this one slide too. :evil:

:evil: :evil: NO PERSONAL REMARKS! :evil: :evil:

She or anyone else here is not here to start an argument with you and carry it. People will post their thoughts and not necessarily have to keep the argument going. She posted what she thought she felt like and was done with it.. don't prolong it now.

Go on out, must be nice down there, have a drink, watch a movie.. get some good food.. and oh stay away from your cops. :wink:

 

Forget right and wrong and assumptions, do you think the police should be allowed to behave this way ? YES OR NO. That is the question.

Are their better methods, YES

I have lived in the US, half my family are still there,and SA became this way by behaving in that manner !

In fact your police study crime here !!! and they learned that trick here !

I go all over the World and adapt to my surroundings !

I am not being Personal, It sucks when someone starts an argument based on assumptions and then goes on to justify it based on his record, and last but not least, HOW DO YOU STOP HIM, with a Helicopter or Microlight, we use them here and how about following him until fuel runs out .

HOW ABOUT A COP ON A BIKE AT LEAST ITS EVEN

 

All that having been said, I managed to spend money even while arguing on the internet, and I now need to go pick up my new armoire and get my weekend started.

Typical, busy shopping and lost the plot ?

Thats quite chauvinistic of you...