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Daytona cams in Street Triple

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65K views 87 replies 32 participants last post by  Capt1986  
#1 · (Edited)
I purchased a set of Daytona camshafts off of the forum here last fall with the intent of putting them in my 09 Street Triple. Since then I have been indecisive, going back and forth on using them or just keeping it simple. Somewhat on a whim, I decided to go ahead and try them out since I was having to do a valve clearance check/ adjustment.

When I first installed the cams, it didnt seem to run any different, just had a clunky noise , then I realized they had to be put IN the engine:duh:
Image


...well, not really...I got the cams in and valve clearance adjusted. I also made some exhaust changes going from the twin highmount Arrows to a custom low pipe and merge collector. I couldnt just download a Daytona tune into the Striple ECM, so I copied all the tables from an 08 Daytona Arrow tune into the 20395 Street Triple Arrow tune. I rode it easy just to make sure there were no mechanical issues, then set an appt. for some dyno time.

We made runs at various throttle openings, and at cruise to see where the mixture was.The tune was way off, fat in some areas, and lean in others. There were 'trends' in the tune, where if it was rich at 8000 RPM at 50% throttle, it was also rich at other throttle percentages. This was fairly true across the board. Being this was my first time dyno tuning a bike using TuneEcu, and the dyno operator was not familiar with it we had a bit of a learning curve to determine how much fuel changes were necessary to get the desired result.

Due to time constraints, I didnt get it as *perfect* as I would have liked, but Im at least comfortable enough with it to ride it. The shop owner was very reasonable as far as what he charged me. The fact that I did all the tune work while he ran the dyno allowed him to get some other stuff done.

I did a before run with the Arrows and Striple cams back in February. Here is a comparison of the best run then and the second best run today ( the best run didnt get saved to my flash drive, but had marginal improvements in midrange) I lost about 2ftlb under 6K RPM, and there is a little dip around 8K. From 9K on the new setup gains some merit. About 10 HP gain at peak, which is about 10%. It was also almost 30 degrees F warmer on the 'after' run ( 65 degree v 92 degreeF)

Image


My Subjective Opinion: The loss of low RPM torque is noticable when riding. Mainly when pulling out of a turn or rolling on the throttle in second gear or higher. The extra power on top is also very easy to feel. It pulls a lot stronger, and the front end gets lofty a bit easier.
I would speculate that someone who is a bit of a *lazy* rider and doesnt like to shift a lot, or wants a very forgiving bike should stick to the Striple setup. I would also say that someone who wants a little more rush, and is willing to keep the bike in the powerband might feel the slight loss in bottom end is worth it. To me it is easy to keep the bike in the powerband, you just have to know what gear to be in and be willing to let it rev up some.

Im happy with it so far.:biggrinjester:

Here is the bike:
Before:
-1 front sprocket
12,xxx miles
Paper air filter in modified box
gutted cat, stock midpipe, twin high mount Arrows with Db killers removed
20198 v3. modernized hex tune
06-08 style head

Now:
-1 front sprocket
12,xxx miles
Paper air filter in modified box
Daytona cams
06-08 style head
Stock Header primaries
Merge collector and 2"pipe
20395 tune modified on Dynojet Dyno with TuneEcu 1.8.6
Image


EDIT: this wasnt the final run, I had to pull the bike off the dyno so another guy could do a quick test. I nabbed this combined image just in case I was 'done' for the day. The final run had a flatter mixture, but no more 'peak' power, just a bit more midrange.
 
S
#5 ·
Nice!

What handlebars are those? stock? Clip-ons?

Edit: I seem to recall there being other engine differences on the daytona compared to the street, not just the cam (although probably the biggest change). Intake/ports? Oh, and it seems the red-line could be higher seeing as your power peak is apparatnly now at red-line (13k). Is it possible to change the limiter with tuneecu?
 
#18 ·
spawn said:
Nice!

What handlebars are those? stock? Clip-ons?

Edit: I seem to recall there being other engine differences on the daytona compared to the street, not just the cam (although probably the biggest change). Intake/ports? Oh, and it seems the red-line could be higher seeing as your power peak is apparatnly now at red-line (13k). Is it possible to change the limiter with tuneecu?
Click to expand...
Just noticed this:
Yes you can adjust the rev limiter, but from what I gather the Street Triple ECM/ tune has different limitations than the Daytona ECU/ tune. This also goes for some of the mapping limits

I believe the head/ ports are identical, with the only alleged difference being the pistons. IF it lets go, Ill post up pics :biggrinjester:
 
#8 ·
Thanks guys...Im diggin it so far.

The bars are Norman Hyde M bars. They sit about 2-3 inches above where clip ons would be. You can barely tell in this pic, but I have a set of brackets installed under the triple for two piece clip ons, so I can convert back and forth. Overall the M bars are a good in between, and they look kinda cool.
Image


Here is the graph from the final runs of the day:
100%
Image

50 and 70%
Image


I woulda been happier with a lil more time, but this will do for now
 
#16 ·
Thats a great result doesn't look like you lost much at all in the bottom end the pipe probably picked most of the cam loss down low and added to the top
Gotta get myself some cams are yours the latter style cams 09+ style with the longer duration or the early type???
Did i spot Tona rearsets ??
Cheers
 
#20 ·
I admit I have only ridden a Street Triple a couple of years ago, but I don't have any problems with the low down power of the Daytona engine. The thing pulls like a train and is the main thing I love about this bike: the engine. The only thing I would say is that it needs a few revs to pull away, but then so does my ZRX1200R and that isn't exactly tuned for power.
 
#21 ·
I just put in my Daytona cams today and took it for a short ride. I'm not currently running Dave's tune but I have a copy of his map I'm going to try. Also I'm running the Arrow exhaust at the moment but will soon be running the Competition Werkes along with the Arrow header. At the moment I'm running the very latest Triumph Street Triple Arrow tune with the very latest Daytona maps copied over to it. It runs very well but there is a very very slight fueling issue around 5k at steady throttle cruising. I like Dave also have the -1 front sprocket. I couldn't tell any differences with low rpm power or torque. If anything the throttle response is much quicker at low rpms. Overall peak powre is quite noticeably increased. Around 9k it starts pulling very very hard and does so all the way to redline which comes up very quickly with no roll off in the power. In 2nd gear before if I were to hammer the throttle around 6k it would lift the front end slightly but that was it. Now it lifts the front end and it continues upward all the way towards redline at which point you need to let off if you don't want to go over backwards. Full throttle in first is pretty much out of the question unless you want to wheelie. As I said though I didn't notice any low rpm loss. I typically ride around town in 5th gear slowing for turns and accelerating away only shifting down for a stop and it still pulls just fine under those conditions and as I said the throttle response seems slightly better under those circumstances. There is definitely a lopey cam feel to the motor when under engine compression below 2,000 rpms.
 
#22 ·
Thats pretty much how mine feels. I can keep the wheel from lifting too much in first if I slowly roll on the throttle waiting till 10K or so to hit WOT, but then im shifting just a second or so later.

Fun stuff...
 
#23 ·
So I got my bike on our dyno today. First off just for information our dyno is notorious for reading low, typically from 5-10hp. Also we don't have a full tuning setup so I can't build a custom map without a lot of trial and error so I just did some quick experiments.

The first graph is my bike stock (Green) then with the Competition Werkes exhaust plus removal of the intake noise restrictor/screen (Blue) and then finally the bike as it sits today (Red) with Arrow header, Daytona cams, intake screen removed, and the crankcase breather directed into the SAI.

The second graph is my bike today in (Blue), one of our race Daytona before it had little if any work done to it in (Green), and then our other Daytona with a full system and a thinner head gasket (Red).

As it sits according to our dyno it peaks at 111.3rwhp. It is likely actually more then that. As you can see there is only two very small point where there is a loss in HP at the low rpms. For the most part it's an increase all the way from the bottom to the top. The small flat spots/dips at the bottom and midrange could likely be taken out with a proper tune. Also note that the cams and Arrow header did not increase HP by 20HP as the graph would show. When I swapped my cams I noticed the factory had installed both my intake and exhaust cams retarded by one tooth. I can't tell how much difference this would make but it could make quite a bit. I know for sure though that my bike wasn't making 90HP before both due to the history of the dyno and from experiences at multiple track days where I was able to keep up or pass many modern 600s at the end of long straight aways.

All in all I'm am ecstatic. This is a much greater improvement then I had dared to dream and my bottom to mid range power still out pulls even our fastest race Daytona and is only beaten at the very top due to the higher rev limiter. I can say for a fact though I was expecting good things from the way it pulled when I've been riding it but I didn't think it was that huge of a difference.
 

Attachments

#27 ·
MacBandit said:
So I got my bike on our dyno today. First off just for information our dyno is notorious for reading low, typically from 5-10hp. Also we don't have a full tuning setup so I can't build a custom map without a lot of trial and error so I just did some quick experiments.

The first graph is my bike stock (Green) then with the Competition Werkes exhaust plus removal of the intake noise restrictor/screen (Blue) and then finally the bike as it sits today (Red) with Arrow header, Daytona cams, intake screen removed, and the crankcase breather directed into the SAI.

The second graph is my bike today in (Blue), one of our race Daytona before it had little if any work done to it in (Green), and then our other Daytona with a full system and a thinner head gasket (Red).

As it sits according to our dyno it peaks at 111.3rwhp. It is likely actually more then that. As you can see there is only two very small point where there is a loss in HP at the low rpms. For the most part it's an increase all the way from the bottom to the top. The small flat spots/dips at the bottom and midrange could likely be taken out with a proper tune. Also note that the cams and Arrow header did not increase HP by 20HP as the graph would show. When I swapped my cams I noticed the factory had installed both my intake and exhaust cams retarded by one tooth. I can't tell how much difference this would make but it could make quite a bit. I know for sure though that my bike wasn't making 90HP before both due to the history of the dyno and from experiences at multiple track days where I was able to keep up or pass many modern 600s at the end of long straight aways.

All in all I'm am ecstatic. This is a much greater improvement then I had dared to dream and my bottom to mid range power still out pulls even our fastest race Daytona and is only beaten at the very top due to the higher rev limiter. I can say for a fact though I was expecting good things from the way it pulled when I've been riding it but I didn't think it was that huge of a difference.
Click to expand...
Great update Mac. Thanks for sharing! I can see why you'd be so happy. That's awesome. I'm looking forward to swapping in cams as well. Will do a before & after dyno also.

Where did you source just the Arrow header?
 
#24 ·
That is certainly impressive. Not only the gains in what I assume is above 10k RPM (the graph just shows mph) but also that you didn't lose anything under that mark, either. Very nice.

Its seeing this that makes me wonder why Triumph insisits on running different cams in these bikes to begin with?
 
#29 ·
ManBearPig said:
That is certainly impressive. Not only the gains in what I assume is above 10k RPM (the graph just shows mph) but also that you didn't lose anything under that mark, either. Very nice.

Its seeing this that makes me wonder why Triumph insisits on running different cams in these bikes to begin with?
Click to expand...
Marketing. They don't want their "Roadster" to have the same power output as their beloved Daytona.

I still believe perception plays a lot into this as well. People think their Striples have more bottom end than a Daytona because they don't have the surge or power increase at the top end. This makes the bike feel like it has a broader powerband and that it pulls harder down low, when in reality they are just lacking on the top end. These engines, especially the heads/ ports/ throttle bodies were designed around the Daytona cam specs.

I spent about $250 to do mine, including the dyno time. I did it along with the 12k valve adjustment so I really didnt have to do a lot of work on top of that. Labor wise, its basically the same as shimming the valves.

Im still happy with mine, no regrets.
 
#28 ·
Scottie said:
Mac,

Those are some very nice results!

Though, your bike didn't have 90HP to start with, you still gained ~20HP!? That's pretty awesome.

Also makes me kinda sad/nervous to know that the factory messed up the intake/exhaust advance/retard on your bike.

Scott
Click to expand...
Well as I stated based on track time I had I'm sure the bike was making 90+ before. This dyno is notoriously 5-10Hp low.

This isn't the first time someone on the forums have gone in to do a valve check or other things and noticed their cams were a tooth off.

As for ease it's as easy as adjusting your valves which for some is extremely difficult. I'd say for a novice I'd say don't do it. Installing the cams on a triple correctly is very tricky. For an experienced tech I'd say it's a 6 out of 10. For the expense I can't comment because it's going to depend on how much you pay for them. I did this for less then $100 because I only needed one cam as I had the other one already at work.

Regarding the loss or lack of it at low rpms I can't attest to whether this is the norm or not. As I stated I now have the Arrow headers on my bike which are significantly larger then stock and I also attached my crankcase breather to the SAI.

As for the RPMs the RPM module on our dyno is screwed so it doesn't show this. The RPMs however are easy to read it's just add 10 to each number and multiply by 100. This will get you a close idea of where it is. So 40 is 5,000 60 is 7,000, etc.,etc.. Redline is actually 13,000 so this is only an approximation of the rpms but close enough.
 
D
#35 · (Edited)
Thanks MacBandit, will that require removal of the cylinder head?

There are a few differences in part numbers, depending on engine number, e.g. the Daytona camchain is a different part number to the Street Triple (although I don't know why, it's the same number of links). See here:

06-08 Daytona:
http://www.worldoftriumph.com/trium...h_motorcycle_parts_locator.php?block_01=&block_02=100058555-0-2&block_03=610400

Street Triple:
http://www.worldoftriumph.com/trium...h_motorcycle_parts_locator.php?block_01=&block_02=100058244-0-2&block_03=610100

I assume this isn't a problem?
 
T
#36 ·
I get a few customers a year wanting to do this and I always talk them out if it.
First problem is the Street Triple has cast pistons where as the Daytona has the better forged pistons. This means theres more chance of a tuned higher revving ST engien going bang. The Daytona is all about the high revs thats why it has the better pistons.
Next the tuned length of the headers is matched to the cam timing. So if youre going to swap the cams you have to swap the headers or you'll never get the best out of the cams.
And finally a short mid section of pipe is robbing the engine even more of its mid range. We always make pipes for the ST with a long length between silencer and collector for this very reason. We do get slated for this but I work on performance not looks!
If you really want your STs to go faster make the most of stock valve timing, head squish and intake/exhaust mods, or fit a Daytona lump.
 
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