[DFH]

Ok, maybe I'm being unrealistic. I'd like to reach around 340lbs lubed but no fuel (ie. half-wet).

421lbs wet means 30lbs of fuel, so a Street Triple is starting out at 391lbs half-wet.

-22lbs for the exhaust option => 369lbs
-2lbs for replacing steel licence holder with aluminium => 367lbs
-4lbs for 520 alloy sprocket/chain option => 363lbs
-3lbs for removing pillion pegs => 360lbs
-2lbs for fitting unweighted flat & wide clipons => 358lbs
-1lb for using bar end mirrors => 357lbs
-1lb for light-weight headlight change => 356lbs
-1lb using Daytona 675 2009 magnesium engine cover => 355lbs
-2lbs using titanium bolt kit => 353lbs

-??lbs using 10 spoke forged magnesium rims => 34?lbs

Anything more that could be gutted/removed, while keeping it street legal? Obviously the goal here is featherweight.

Hey FLUX... how old are you?

Wanted to participate in this thread, so I started converting the feudal measures you were using into something more comprehensible then I noticed noticed you were from Melbourne.:signhuh: Australia metricated in the late '60's dude..... I'm 47 years old and I was never taught Imperial Measures in school in Sydney.:biggrinjester:

On issue to think of is the KTM690SM has a considerably lighter engine than the 675 Triumph Triple engine so matching the 690 weight is unrealistic.

However I have ridden another brand of 600cc bike before and after fitting lightweight wheels and the difference was huge... from what you have written you are looking for weight reduction to change flickability on twisty roads. If that is the case don't bother with anything other than removing pillion pegs and stuff, then go for the super lightweight wheels. AMCN had a good article on putting lightweight wheels on a cbr600rr a year or so ago ( lots of suspension fiddling needed to get them to work, but with good results) so give them a call.

BTW only three countries have not adopted metric measures. Liberia, Myanmar (aka Burma) & USA... what a club :rofl2:

DFH

 

[mr.bill]

Like what parts?

i was thinking the street-oriented parts such as bodywork, lightweight wheels, and even the frame wouldn't be too happy with repeated gravel strikes, road irregularities, and the harsher continual vibrations from such a road.

just a thought :thumbup:

BTW only three countries have not adopted metric measures. Liberia, Myanmar (aka Burma) & USA... what a club

thanks for the blind hatred, always helpful...

:screwy:

 

[[FLUX]]

LOL @ DFH.

My father was a tradie who measured everything in imperial, and I always converted to metric. I've produced goods for the USA market myself, and have lived in the USA for a stretch too, so overall I'm pretty conversent with switching units for the sake of our USA brethren who make up the majority of this forum's user base.

I do appreciate that weight matching the 690SMC is unrealistic, but I don't believe achieving 690SMC+10kgs is not, which is what the goal is.

 

[TappinZZ]

FLUX-US prices put the KTM690SM and new Triple R at about the same $$'s is it a big difference in Aust? I had sat upon the KTM this summer and liked the ergo's -in my neck of the woods they're aren't any nearby desirable dealerships.

 

[[FLUX]]

Over here in Auz, the 690SMC costs the same as the Daytona 675, and the 690SMC isn't even officially listed. KTM brought 10 of 690SMC's into the country, and then didn't advertise that they had them, basically waiting for people wanted one to call them and chase them up on it. There's apparently 3 left unsold in the whole country, at the same price as the Daytona 675. After that it becomes special order and you can add another $2000 on top.

When I asked about getting a test ride on a 690SM or even a 690 Duke, just for an ergonomics perspective, they don't even have any demonstrators of any of the 690 LC4 range available where I live (in a city with conurbation approaching ~4 million people).

I've been keen to try the whole supermotard thing, but the experience for me so far has been one of a tremendous leap of faith over a large sum of money for what everyone is telling me are fairly (to extremely) fragile bikes with punishing maintenance schedules. This is what has me swinging more towards some perverse approximation of the same with the Striple.

 

[DFH]

thanks for the blind hatred, always helpful...

:screwy:[/QUOTE]

ya what? .... a bit tongue in cheek it was.. learn to laugh at yourself before assuming the worst....:itsok:

DFH

 

[DFH]

LOL @ DFH.

My father was a tradie who measured everything in imperial, and I always converted to metric. I've produced goods for the USA market myself, and have lived in the USA for a stretch too, so overall I'm pretty conversent with switching units for the sake of our USA brethren who make up the majority of this forum's user base.

I've worked in the film industry for donkeys and even though most of the gear comes from Europe most of the work is done in feet & inches. Obviously that line of work put me in a workplace with lots of Americans, and by and large the crew types were great ( the actors however......)

My intent was only to create a mental picture of me feverishly sitting with a pencil & calculator converting your post into something workable (world supersport class weights are in metric, so if your target weight was way lower than that it would be a guide to its realism).
I had assumed that like most on this site you were a septic but then having a "what the" moment when I spotted your location... I had a laugh at myself, thought others my like to join in too:biggrinjester:

still if we have to change units to suit our 'murican mates, will they change to imperial gallons in deference to the country of origin of the street triple ?...

DFH

 

[[FLUX]]

Worthwhile noting that many of the bikes in WSS actually need to add weight to bring them up to the minimum weights stated in the rules. This is actually a desirable thing in some ways as it allows the teams to mess around with different weight balances by moving the lead ballast that they use to different parts of the bike.

The minimum allowable half-wet weight for World Supersport bikes, at the end of a race is 158kgs, with a 1kg tolerance, so really 157kgs at an absolute minimum.

Some of the teams are adding up to 5kgs of ballast, so the lightest WSS bikes are basically running at around 152kgs with fluids but no-fuel, or ~334lbs for our USA mates. I'll have lights, indicators, and mirrors, but no fairings and associated bracketry, so they almost cancel each other out. WSS bikes must use stock rims.

Overall my goals are not unrealistic, but definitely somewhat of a challenge, and hey, what would life be without a challenge or two?

 

[LeMans]

Hey FLUX, I think it's a great project and that you are on the right track. I am a supermoto fan myself but if you are going to put some significant mileage on the bike I would definitely start with a street bike instead. The Street Triple is what I felt was the best compromise and that's why I bought one. I test rode the Ducati Hypermotard 1100S and altought the engineers did a great job at balancing it, I felt it was underpowered with regards to the quality of its chassis/brakes/suspension. Also the Hypermotard was just too heavy for the kind of money they ask for and getting one on a diet is not going to be an easy task given all the ligth and expensive bits it already comes with.

You might also lose some weight on your ST by changing the OEM steel handlebars and replacing them with aluminum ones (you could go oversize if you also replace the clamps). Also don't forget you might end up adding some weight with basic necessities like frame/engine sliders, a radiator guard, a rear wheel hugger or a steering damper.

My Street is going to get on a diet soon. The Arrow 3 in 1 and the passenger pegs will be the first to go. I have a rear Ohlins shock waiting to be bolted on but it's not that light so I'm not sure if I will lose anything with it. Next will be a Daytona front end but I do not know it that setup weights more or less than the stock ST one.

I am also considering buying a KTM 690SMC to replace one of my sumos. I really like that bike but I could never have a single cylinder sumo as my only bike. In my experience they are a ton of fun but they are maintenance hogs and are ony 'kinda' reliable at best... nothing that comes even close to the reliability of a modern street bike by any stretch of the imagination IMO.

Cheers, Phil

 

[DFH]

Some of the teams are adding up to 5kgs of ballast, so the lightest WSS bikes are basically running at around 152kgs with fluids but no-fuel, or ~334lbs for our USA mates. I'll have lights, indicators, and mirrors, but no fairings and associated bracketry, so they almost cancel each other out. WSS bikes must use stock rims.

Overall my goals are not unrealistic, but definitely somewhat of a challenge, and hey, what would life be without a challenge or two?

Yes I agree.... I wonder where the WSS bikes loose weight? Exhaust, lights, race fairing & bracketry, race only instruments & wiring loom? Obviously the fundamentals will remain ( engine, main frame, shock & swingarm, forks wheels & brakes, fuel tank) so it is possible.

Something to ponder. If you ditch the bug eye headlights to save weight, is it still a Speed Triple? Or just a stripped D675?

DFH

 

[thirdway]

Goal is not a race-bike. Goal is a superlight naked streeter project bike. For want of a better word, think motard, but with the street triple as a base.

Speeds above 135mph are not the goal of this bike in any way. In fact, 135mph is about where I'd be gearing the bike to top out at, at the rev limiter in 6th.

Rider weight is irrelevant, as this is not going to be used at a race track to set fastest lap times. This is a gnarly back-road terror bike that is intended to punch from corner to corner, will wheelie at command with a crack of the throttle, and being light-weight will rail around corners like a MotoGP bike (same weight).

I've been researching a second bike, being a motard like a KTM690SMC, but I also cover a lot of miles. Long term reliability and frequency of servicing is therefore an important consideration. After looking and looking, I'm coming to the conclusion that there's not really such a thing out there as a superlight-weight reliable powerful motard.

I've ridden my Daytona over miles of dirt, and the sheer punchy gruntiness of the engine out of corners in the dirt has often made me think what a fantastic dirt-bike motor the 675 triple would be.

My solution: if the market doesn't sell me what I want, I'll make what I want. Am not really looking for understanding, but I do appreciate any advice anyone can offer about helping me to achieve my goal.

As I said, the stated goal is 340lbs half-wet. ie. road trim but with an empty tank of fuel. I do think that's achievable. If you check out my list above, I reckon 348lbs is definitely doable. It's the other 8lbs that I'm looking for, and figure that Striple owners here would have the best idea as to what's superfluous baggage on their bikes.

Yamaha already did that with a TDR 250.

A watercooled Triple probably isn't the best starting point if you want a lightweight bike. Something aircooled would be the way forward as it dispenses with radiators and plumbing.

Thing to remember is that light weight does not equal better in the same way as a great guitarist doesn't make the best rock band. Big fat BMWs do remarkably well at getting down a tight back road and have the ride quality to match.

Reducing unsprung weight such as the wheels has a massive effect on acceleration and turning. Look that way first. Ride quality is a function of unsprung weight v sprung weight, the lighter the unsprung weight the less the suspension needs to work. Also ride quality improves as the ratio between sprung and unsprung weight improves.

KTM singles along the lines of the 690 are not fragile, they as tough as old boots although KTM obviously have a range of race singles that are a bit more spares hungry.

I applaud your efforts, look forward to the result.

 

[sillygit]

If your current 675 is anything to go by then I'm really looking forward to the result of this project!

 

[[FLUX]]

KTM singles along the lines of the 690 are not fragile, they as tough as old boots although KTM obviously have a range of race singles that are a bit more spares hungry.

Okay, so this is the question that I posed to my thumper mates, that they all chortled (laughed) at me for even asking.

Would a hard-ridden 690SMC motor reliably last for 60,000kms, with a prospective life-span in excess of 100,000kms such that it would have some resale value when sold with 60,000kms on the dial?

At least five different guys have said "No way!". Are you telling me different? Put another way - would YOU buy a KTM 690SMC with 60,000kms on the clock?

Thing to remember is that light weight does not equal better in the same way as a great guitarist doesn't make the best rock band. Big fat BMWs do remarkably well at getting down a tight back road and have the ride quality to match.

So long as the corner speeds are above around 110kph (~70mph), I'll agree. One of the guys I ride with on occasion rides an R1200RS, and he's an ex-country-level racer. He makes that big thing move faster on the road than ANY BMW I've ever seen. When the roads get real tight (~60-70kph corner speeds) it's no contest. My lighter and more nimble 675 eats it for breakfast. He just physically can't flip that much weight from side to side rapidly. It affects the transition entry arcs. You simply must go slower to give the bike the time required to change lean angles otherwise you overshoot the entry into the next corner before the bike is even leaned.

 

[CrazyCam]

Yamaha already did that with a TDR 250.

Indeed. Sadly, very few of them made their way to Oz.

If I could find one, at a reasonable price, I'd have one in my garage.

I might even throw the 350 pistons and barrels at it.:smile:

regards,CrazyCam

 

[[FLUX]]

TDR250 was 50hp at the crank, and 137kgs dry. Possibly a better solution than that would be street-fightering an RGV250.

Speaking of which, I think I'm firming up on what I want to do, and that really is just to street-fighter a Daytona 675. I kept thinking about stripping back a Street Triple R, but for the small price difference (StripleR costs $1400 less than the D675 here in Aus new), I'd be better off buying a rashed low-kms second hand D675 and converting that.

Thanks for all the input and feedback guys.

 

[thirdway]

Okay, so this is the question that I posed to my thumper mates, that they all chortled (laughed) at me for even asking.

Would a hard-ridden 690SMC motor reliably last for 60,000kms, with a prospective life-span in excess of 100,000kms such that it would have some resale value when sold with 60,000kms on the dial?

At least five different guys have said "No way!". Are you telling me different? Put another way - would YOU buy a KTM 690SMC with 60,000kms on the clock?

I dont really understand your point. In all the years I have ridden there are few bikes I have ever seen with 66,000 miles on the clock, most have been BMWs. Thats not to say bikes wont do that but in the main they disintegrate, or disappear (makes me wonder where older Jap bikes go) for other reasons well before the engine expires. I have a mate than runs a z550 he has had since new and that has around 80,000 miles on it, thing is it's now so old it's a classic bike !

The KTM will do the full on Supermoto thing right out of the crate and is just as reliable as any other single as long as you look after it. Thrashing is in the KTMs blood, doesn't mean that you wont have to repair the odd thing......hell the belts, fuel pump, water pump and several sensors and injectors have failed on my Ford Focus and its only done 70K !

If you want a bike that does the SM thing as well as the single cylinder KTM but has longevity then I suggest the 950SM. Forget the notion that it is too heavy to be an SM as half the guys that had the singles ended up with them after months of forum outbursts. In the end they realised the 950SM had 95% of the singles handling with 500% more practicality and an engine that was so crazy that it made the 690s seem dull !!

 

[[FLUX]]

Hmmm. On this board I reckon I must be somewhat isolated in my annual mileage then?

I cover around 20,000 miles/year. 60,000 miles for me would be 3 years of ownership. My Daytona 675 has 21,000 miles on it now and I reckon that it's never been smoother nor better. In fact I'd say that the thing has just finished its run-in period.

Of the guys I ride with, most ride sports bikes, and I'm not as active as some of them. One guy recently sold his CBR954 with 180,000 miles on the clock. There's another guy with am '03 R1 that has 90,000 miles on the clock and still going strong. Plenty more with 60,000+ miles.

All these guys ride hard and fast. There's a real myth out there that sports bikes fall apart and die after 20,000 miles or so. That's complete crap. Just regular lubrication and maintenance, check valve clearances, change oil every 3000 miles, and refresh/service the suspension every 30,000 miles will see most any modern multi-cylinder sportsbike last well over 100,000 miles before needing any major work.

It concerns me though when people start telling me that singles definitely won't last anywhere near that long. As you can tell, maybe I have fairly strict and somewhat out-of-the-ordinary requirements, but overall given my experience, I don't see them as being unreasonable.

I've sold most of my bikes with >30,000 miles on them after 18-24 months of ownership, and as far as I'm aware, most have gone on to last twice or thrice as long again.

I want a superlight, grunty, nimble machine that allows that sort of lifespan and usage. I am not really interested in your criticisms of my expectations. That's just negative crap that serves no purpose.

 

[mr.bill]

i believe the reason not many americans see bikes with that kind of mileage is because a LOT of them end up in wrecking yards.

be it through their owner's squidliness or the excessive number of brain-free cagers (as was the case with my first ST3 that died with just over 2k miles on it) :byebye:

 

[LeMans]

It concerns me though when people start telling me that singles definitely won't last anywhere near that long. As you can tell, maybe I have fairly strict and somewhat out-of-the-ordinary requirements, but overall given my experience, I don't see them as being unreasonable.

If a single lasts as much as you want to, you honestly will be good for the Guiness book of records.
BTW I considered singles to be a reliable transportation back when I lived in Europe.
Then I moved the states and the sames singles weren't such a reliable means of transportation anymore...
I have 3 bikes in my garage. One 3 cylinder and 2 singles. 2 of the bikes are in need of maintenance... guess which ones.

 

[DFH]

Hmmm. On this board I reckon I must be somewhat isolated in my annual mileage then?

No FLUX... your mileage matches mine.

As a rule of thumb it seems that our 'murican cousins, as has been pointed out by others, thrash'n'crash'n'replace bikes with really low kays on the clock. My assumption is that because bikes are silly cheap to buy in the USA people treat them that way. As a disposable fashion accessory.

On the other hand in the UK bikes are 'kin expensive compared to Oz, the UK itself is quite small and the riding season is quite short. If you do risk riding all year round you have to contend with 40 weeks of the year rain & salt spread on the roads in winter so your new bike rots to death before you wear it out. So the poms put their shiny new bikes away to hibernate & mileages are thus low.

In Southern Europe bikes are very much a life style choice so the still high prices does not inhibit constant use so bikes rack up the kays like we do in Oz.

I would expect that a KTM690 single would easily manage 160,000km plus (ok 100,000 miles plus for those in the US that have metric-phobia) and that would be a design parameter for the bike... as in most bike designs. Sure a SVX550SM Aprilia wont do that, but a well maintained roadbike will

I own a GS500 with 160,000km that has had 1 valve shim replaced after the motor settled down @ 20,000km. That bike has been to Cape Tribulation, The Snowys, track days @ Eastern Creek, Oran Park, Wakefield Park & survived inner Sydney for years.. cant kill it. My TRX has 110,000km on the dial, and after new inlet valves, rings & seals @ 80,000km has more power at the wheel on the dyno than it did @ 10,000km

I expect it is entirely reasonable to expect the 100,000km from a Street Triple....

DFH