[NZ675]

There's some new research coming out of the UK about key differences between novice riders, experienced riders and advanced riders with respect to safe riding behaviours. The summary is here: http://geoffjames.blogspot.com/2011/01/speed-doesnt-kill-stupidity-kills.html.

Most riders (at least those that live through the first few years of ownership ) recognise the need for continuous upskilling. What really scares me is that most cage drivers think that there's nothing more to learn once they have their licence. A powerful reason by itself for all riders to get formal Situational Awareness training!

Cheers,

Geoff

 

[saltydog1318]

^^^ Well said! I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[williamr]

If you aren't moving you won't get killed - at least not by your bike, so in that respect speed does kill. The trick is being good enough to stop it from killing you.

In my instructor days in the UK we taught to the 'System of Motorcycle Control', as described in Motorcycle Roadcraft. That agrees fully with the research to the point where I cringe watching a lot of experienced but not well trained riders doing it wrong - and a lot of times I go past them simply because of better initial positioning. The IAM, I believe, still uses this system, although as training has become more commercialised and the standards for the basic licence test are much lower, newbies are no longer trained to it.

imo, once you've got the basics, then hazard perception, positioning, and constantly running down the System's check list are the keys to being both fast and safe. But you don't get there without both experience and training.

Rob

 

[DecepticonDon]

thanks for the article. backs up what I've seen with my own two eyes. watched several "experienced"(30+ years) riders do some dumb shit.

 

[Smoke]

If you aren't moving you won't get killed - at least not by your bike, so in that respect speed does kill.

Unless your bike drops, pinning you underneath and making you die from blood loss or hunger

Some insurers reduce your premiums when you've followed such programs, but they're far too rare.

 

[NZ675]

If you aren't moving you won't get killed - at least not by your bike, so in that respect speed does kill. The trick is being good enough to stop it from killing you.

In my instructor days in the UK we taught to the 'System of Motorcycle Control', as described in Motorcycle Roadcraft. That agrees fully with the research to the point where I cringe watching a lot of experienced but not well trained riders doing it wrong - and a lot of times I go past them simply because of better initial positioning. The IAM, I believe, still uses this system, although as training has become more commercialised and the standards for the basic licence test are much lower, newbies are no longer trained to it.

imo, once you've got the basics, then hazard perception, positioning, and constantly running down the System's check list are the keys to being both fast and safe. But you don't get there without both experience and training.

Rob

Agree on all accounts Rob. Lowering standards seems to be a world-wide trend, not only in getting a license but education (nobody should be seen to fail, poor darlings), apprenticeships and damned near everything else. Ironic when you consider the increasing complexity of the world.

Geoff

 

[djcuba908]

I plan on doing the Rider Ed experienced rider course this year after I get some more miles under my belt. I'm all for continuing education.

 

[hawk_racer_116]

Situational awareness, this is a concept we've learned that some do not understand. The training for it is varied, the version we've adopted from the aviation world seems to get some, but others scares the hell out of them! Mostly it is due to the first time they have ever tried to learn, remember, analyze, and predict where they are, where they are going to be, where they were once before and what was good/bad and adjust accordingly.

References:
http://www.skilldriver.org/index.asp?page=0.5.1.0.minddriving
Very good book and exercises
https://www.alertdriver.com/
Very good 3 hour online training that I credit saving my $38k truck with $7K Daytona in the back
http://www.alecgore.com/
On-road instructor with downloadable presentations
http://www.webbikeworld.com/books/proficient-motorcycling.htm
The only book to buy if you have to buy one riding skills book
http://psyc.queensu.ca/target/
The controversial, but very creditable, Risk Homeostasis theory with exercises. I've done the exercises and they work.

 

[SLC675]

Thank you for the article, I will agree with most of it. I think that it is a balance between many different real world factors.

 

[k473y]

Thank you for the article, I will agree with most of it. I think that it is a balance between many different real world factors.

I agree with it, and agree with that comment.
Every! rider, no matter how much experience, will make mistakes on the bike, this is called being human.
Riders like ppl, it's a 675 not a k100 forum btw, have different priorities depending on their age and personality
But I have no debate that you can never have too much training.
Good reading:
http://www.fjrowners.ws/pace.html

 

[SLC675]

^That is an excellent way to look at the way we should all be riding on the street. Good reading there, too. I easily read the whole thing

 

[WoozieFox]

Actually this is Darwinism at its finest. EVERYBODY should ride liter bikes 3 hours out of the day! The human race would advance at tenfold the pace.

 

[pyroking339]

to loosely quote jeremy clarkson (loosely because i don't perfectly remember)
"speed has never killed anyone, it's suddenly stopping that'll get you."

 

[Smoke]

Sadly, intelligence only has a meagre genetic part, so we get fitter a lot faster than we get intelligent. Oh, wait, thanks to plastic surgery, we don't.

 

[WoozieFox]

to loosely quote jeremy clarkson (loosely because i don't perfectly remember)
"speed has never killed anyone, it's suddenly stopping that'll get you."

About a month ago I wrote Top Gear about testing the D675 against its Italian and Japanese counterparts and have only heard back that they received my message.out:

Since you seem like a fan as well maybe you could Email them as too or perhaps I should create a new post for this worthy cause, hmm...

 

[TwoWheeledWonder]

Coming from me, I have always had a love for motorcycles. I think my DNA is shaped like the two wheeled beasts. While I have some form of a "street" bike since I was 15, I will say at the younger age I was a bit more dumb then I am now. What has made me really respect what I have is my last wreck which I was taken out by a car and made me think a lot more.

I now think most people that have gone through that type of wreck see riding a bit more differently. While people that just low side do not always go through the pain of something like I went through. Not only did my bike get totalled but my body was for a little while, while most low side type of wrecks the typical road rash type shit that people try to show off as being a badass. Let me tell you road rash is nothing compared to multiple broken bones and discovering how easy it would be for someone else to take a life with just a press of a gas pedal or turn of a steering wheel.

When I ride I am like a crack head. I am constantly watching around me. When I pull up to a light I am watching my back like I just dropped the soap.

That is just some of my thoughts and experiences though.

 

[TwoWheeledWonder]

About a month ago I wrote Top Gear about testing the D675 against its Italian and Japanese counterparts and have only heard back that they received my message.out:

Since you seem like a fan as well maybe you could Email them as too or perhaps I should create a new post for this worthy cause, hmm...

I dont see top gear doing a bike comparison. While there have been a few episodes with bikes and my favorite being Vietnam one, I just dont see them doing all that much for bikes.

 

[hawk_racer_116]

Coming from me, I have always had a love for motorcycles. I think my DNA is shaped like the two wheeled beasts. While I have some form of a "street" bike since I was 15, I will say at the younger age I was a bit more dumb then I am now. What has made me really respect what I have is my last wreck which I was taken out by a car and made me think a lot more.

I now think most people that have gone through that type of wreck see riding a bit more differently. While people that just low side do not always go through the pain of something like I went through. Not only did my bike get totalled but my body was for a little while, while most low side type of wrecks the typical road rash type shit that people try to show off as being a badass. Let me tell you road rash is nothing compared to multiple broken bones and discovering how easy it would be for someone else to take a life with just a press of a gas pedal or turn of a steering wheel.

When I ride I am like a crack head. I am constantly watching around me. When I pull up to a light I am watching my back like I just dropped the soap.

That is just some of my thoughts and experiences though.

Congrats on making it through the therapy, been there and done that; will buy a beverage of choice if we ever meet in person.

I was hit by a 69-year old lady who wanted Arby's and didn't care about traffic laws; wife was hit by a lady talking to her kid in the rearview mirror instead of being aware of the traffic around her, and I saw the aftermath of a left-turning car into a motorcycle this evening.

 

[way2faded]

1 bad thing about road rash is the loss of feeling u never get back. Forearm and quad are numb/tingly since wreck 2 years ago.

Not complaining tho I feel very fortunate to have escaped with a busted elbow the worst of it