[Physics]

I hope this isn't a repost, but motorcycle.com (who, you may notice, sponsor this forum, but I have nothing to do with) had a middleweight naked shootout.

http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/2011-naked-middleweights-shootout-90414.html

Gotta love the R!

 

[coreyvwc]

I came across one of those FZ8's at the track this weekend. They are actually pretty damn quick, up to about 90mph... Then bye bye:laugh:

 

[doublen675]

As much as I agree with the outcome and know the Streety is the best bike of them. Motorcycle.com is a bit biased and tends to lean toward the Triumphs most of the time.

 

[Mad Matt]

here in Holland they said the Monster 895 won because the street doesnt have ABS, bunch of pussies. :rofl:

 

[doublen675]

here in Holland they said the Monster 895 won because the street doesnt have ABS, bunch of pussies. :rofl:

ABS and other technologies are going to ruin the art and skill of riding a motorcycle just like they ruined the skill necessary to drive a car before all of these newfangled techno-gadgets ruined everything. They are nice, in a pinch. But learning to ride without them can never be replaced. Kids nowadays wouldn't know what to do without ABS and traction control on cars. :duh:

 

[dlroto]

I'm pissed that the video cuts out at 8:30, I want to see the rest, but I can't find it.

 

[Mad Matt]

Doublen I agree, most drivingschools (motorcycles) here have learner bikes with ABS, i think its a big mistake!

 

[Daken]

As much as I agree with the outcome and know the Streety is the best bike of them. Motorcycle.com is a bit biased and tends to lean toward the Triumphs most of the time.

+1

saw a top 100 list that they did and 3 out of the top 5 were Triumphs. Triumph does make great bikes, but it does seem a bit biased.

 

[Mad Matt]

+1

saw a top 100 list that they did and 3 out of the top 5 were Triumphs. Triumph does make great bikes, but it does seem a bit biased.

I may be biased aswell, but they are great bikes.

The Street Triple is leader in its class, the Daytona is really really good aswell, most tests in Holland it wins or comes second after the new ZX6R.

As for the Speed (05-10 model) its top of the line, right next to the super duke, the rest of the 1000cc naked bikes, they cant touch the level the ktm and triumph are on.

But again i might be biased aswell, Triumph is the best brand i've owned :coolgleamA:

 

[Talus]

new to me. Thanks for posting.

 

[SoCalDaytona]

ABS and other technologies are going to ruin the art and skill of riding a motorcycle just like they ruined the skill necessary to drive a car before all of these newfangled techno-gadgets ruined everything. They are nice, in a pinch. But learning to ride without them can never be replaced. Kids nowadays wouldn't know what to do without ABS and traction control on cars. :duh:

+1000000000000 I Agree 100000% alot of people were pissed the motogp bikes are using this crap! the skill to do things W/O the aid of electronics is what gives you the edge!

 

[Smoke]

Well, there's a reason why Triumph is very often on top of the shoot-outs, and it's not entirely thanks to their hyping funds :coolgleamA:

Electronic ignition ruined the fine art of trimming your ignition timing !

 

[Sp00ky]

I learned to ride [and race] without all the modern aids. I dare say that quite a few other riders on these forums did too.
I believe it made me a better rider.

However, the extra safety afforded by modern state of the art ABS is a good thing, imo ... especially for younger riders. I've seen too many kids go down in corners when they go in hot and realise they aren't going to get around the bend, panic ...then grab a handful of brake.
ABS at least gives them a chance, although they should have taken advanced riding lessons first !

Back to the review...

The only trouble i've had on windy back roads is with the new KTM's. They are very quick. With a good rider on board they are a decent match for the street triple because of the good ground clearance and good power.

I've had a few runs against them with Moto style riders aboard and they do go around corners very well.

I noticed that a lot of the new naked bikes look quite a lot like the Striple. It just proves that Triumph got the styling correct on the Striple right from the start.

S.

 

[Eric StreetR]

ABS and other technologies are going to ruin the art and skill of riding a motorcycle just like they ruined the skill necessary to drive a car before all of these newfangled techno-gadgets ruined everything. They are nice, in a pinch. But learning to ride without them can never be replaced. Kids nowadays wouldn't know what to do without ABS and traction control on cars. :duh:

The simple fact is that computers are better than humans 99% of the time.

On the road, things like ABS and traction control save lives.

 

[Ken M1]

On the road, things like ABS and traction control save lives.

They do. So does proper training and skill. Unfortunately we live in a "do it for me" world, so tech is easier than training. It's sad. We live in a world where people think, "I don't want to learn how to do it... do it for me". :notamused:

 

[banjo8]

ABS and other technologies are going to ruin the art and skill of riding a motorcycle just like they ruined the skill necessary to drive a car before all of these newfangled techno-gadgets ruined everything. They are nice, in a pinch. But learning to ride without them can never be replaced. Kids nowadays wouldn't know what to do without ABS and traction control on cars. :duh:

I hear ya, but an old, old man would argue that disc brakes, twin spar frames, fuel injection, and wide sticky tires have ruined the art of riding. While these technological improvements are not necessarily "electronics", they are no doubt products of such. Tools will always evolve, but a baseline set of skills will remain necessary to go fast. ABS & traction control will still get us passed, and will still occasionally end up in the sand trap.

 

[doublen675]

The simple fact is that computers are better than humans 99% of the time.

On the road, things like ABS and traction control save lives.

I hear ya, but an old, old man would argue that disc brakes, twin spar frames, fuel injection, and wide sticky tires have ruined the art of riding. While these technological improvements are not necessarily "electronics", they are no doubt products of such. Tools will always evolve, but a baseline set of skills will remain necessary to go fast. ABS & traction control will still get us passed, and will still occasionally end up in the sand trap.

Both are excellent points. My argument is that you should learn to ride without them then you don't rely on them. For example, I know if I am into a corner and grab a handful of front brake then I am fucked. If I learned to rely on ABS I wouldn't necessarily know about this, or how dramatic it could be when said electronic gizmo decided one day it wasn't going to work. But yes, it's not that I am old-fashioned or anything, I just think in training and beginner bikes shouldn't have the requirement legally to provide ABS and or traction control. Yes, it will save lives, but not as many as a proper training program will save.

 

[jcp]

I completely agree with you doublen. The awareness of road surface and attention to conditions which bikes without electronic aids require are an essential part of the skill needed to ride safely at any speed. Once achieved such knowledge is lifelong and carries over into car driving and anticipating the actions of others.
BUT when a bike I want and can love is available with the current best or better ABS and T/C I will be on it. Not because I can't ride without but because I'm not infallible. I try to avoid riding when I'm tired and ride accordingly when I am. I prefer not to ride in bad conditions but conditions change when I need to get home. I will make mistakes but would prefer not to pay in skin and bone.

 

[Eric StreetR]

Technology definitely should not take the place of proper training. It should merely supplement it.

The cost factor will keep ABS / TC off of the "learner's bikes" for some time - but I agree, at some point it will probably become the new standard. Whether or not this will impact the quality of the rider who learns on such a bike is up for debate. Sure, all of us who took the MSF course learned how to do a panic stop - in theory. We might have even practiced it a few times at low speed. Hell, some of the hardcore guys here might practice it regularly just to stay sharp. That doesn't mean that we wouldn't go down in a real-world situation. ABS is just a safety net for those times when, despite the training, you still panic.

In fact, I could see using ABS as a safe way to learn the limits of your bike. I've never ridden a bike with ABS, but in a car - you know when it's engaged. This can be a useful tool in teaching a new rider to approach, but not exceed, the limits of the motorcycle without the risk of locking up the brakes and lowsiding.


At the same time, the purest in me agrees with you. Hell, I think everyone should learn how to drive on a manual car.

 

[banjo8]

Both are excellent points. My argument is that you should learn to ride without them then you don't rely on them. For example, I know if I am into a corner and grab a handful of front brake then I am fucked. If I learned to rely on ABS I wouldn't necessarily know about this, or how dramatic it could be when said electronic gizmo decided one day it wasn't going to work. But yes, it's not that I am old-fashioned or anything, I just think in training and beginner bikes shouldn't have the requirement legally to provide ABS and or traction control. Yes, it will save lives, but not as many as a proper training program will save.

Dig it. The only thing I would require legally is a training program (for street bikes of course). It's free here in PA - a good and bad thing, but we have huge demand for classes as a result. I can guarantee we're not getting ABS & TC on our range bikes here anytime soon. We're lucky some of them still have handlebars.