[Maxticate]

Ok after sitting in the rain for approx 2 hours last Sunday my 07 675 wouldn't start again. It would turn over but not fire.

After using the search function I have narrowed it down to being either

1) Water in the fuel, blocked fuel pump or injectors.

2) Faulty CPS (either a short in the loom or a defunct sensor).


Could someone please provide an image of the CPS connector under the tank. The bike is in my parents garage and my dad is going to measure the resistance of the CPS for me. Unfortunately he is having trouble followng the wire back from the stator housing.

Thanks

Max

 

[falloutboy33]

Have you tried a running start?

 

[Maxticate]

Yes I did try bump starting it but I'm guessing my technique could do with some work. I may not have gone at it with as much vigour as I could as I was convinced the bike was turning over OK. I'm almost certain there is no spark. However from searching I realised it could be one of the two options above.

What would be the idea behind trying a bump start. What might it be other than the two possibilities above?

 

[MacBandit]

Drain the fuel tank.

 

[falloutboy33]

Yes I did try bump starting it but I'm guessing my technique could do with some work. I may not have gone at it with as much vigour as I could as I was convinced the bike was turning over OK. I'm almost certain there is no spark. However from searching I realised it could be one of the two options above.

What would be the idea behind trying a bump start. What might it be other than the two possibilities above?

I'm not a mechanic but a push start just eliminate the battery as a source of start problem, which in most cases is the cause of bike not starting.

 

[Maxticate]

Drain the fuel tank.

I'll be travelling down to do that this weekend. I had read that water could block the fuel filter so I'm also going to check that fuel is pumped when the fuel pump goes through it's start up cycle. I'm very hopeful a fresh tank of fuel will be the quick and easy answer!

As for bump starting the bike battery was backed up with a quickstart pack as well so there is no danger of the battery being to weak to crank the bike.

 

[falloutboy33]

I'll be travelling down to do that this weekend. I had read that water could block the fuel filter so I'm also going to check that fuel is pumped when the fuel pump goes through it's start up cycle. I'm very hopeful a fresh tank of fuel will be the quick and easy answer!

As for bump starting the bike battery was backed up with a quickstart pack as well so there is no danger of the battery being to weak to crank the bike.

Have you tried using fuel stabilizer or similar fuel treatments to get rid of water?

 

[MacBandit]

It doesn't really get rid of the water it just causes it to emulsify into the water so that the bike can run it on through. If there is enough water it will not help.

As for push starting if the battery were really really low the bike would not start no matter what as you need enough power for the ecu to power the injectors and all the other components and push starting doesn't generate enough electricity power the bike and to overcome a dead battery(really dead).

 

[john_char]

I had very similar happen to my bike. I tried aerostart (use very sparingly) if it started on that and then died it's def fuel starvation. Mine ended up being a blocked fuel filter due to the tank rusting slightly. It won't be your injectors. Also check your spark.

 

[Budo]

I had very similar happen to my bike. I tried aerostart (use very sparingly) if it started on that and then died it's def fuel starvation. Mine ended up being a blocked fuel filter due to the tank rusting slightly. It won't be your injectors. Also check your spark.

Don't cross out the injectors yet. I had water in my tank, cleaned it out completely and my bike still wouldn't start. Turns out my injectors were completely clogged and cleaning those worked like a charm.

 

[elysm1]

Budo, don't rule me out as a complete ass just yet. I had the same thing happen to me not long ago. Not to say that it is the end all, but clean your injectors and your problem my very well be fixed. I tried everything before looking to the injectors. I wish you luck with your problem sir, and keep us posted.

 

[Maxticate]

Cheers for the advice,

I didn't really want to go as far as stripping the injectors but we may as well do the job properly just to be sure .

How can i go about cleaning them out?

Max

 

[Maxticate]

The CPS measured at 1.8 Mohms and the other way round was 2.3 Mohms so it looks as if is it is definitely that.

I'm going to see now whether it can be replaced on its own or repaired in the lab at work as the stator looks fine and I don't want to spend hundreds on a new stator as well for no reason!

 

[NOLAnuffsaid]

i'm having the same problems. can you please explain what the CPS is? also, where is it located?

 

[Maxticate]

i'm having the same problems. can you please explain what the CPS is? also, where is it located?

The CPS or crank position sensor sits within the alternator housing and is used by the ECU to determine the point at which to fire each cylinder. It allows the ignition to be advanced with increasing crank speed to keep the ignition optimum.

If the CPS burns out then no crankshaft information gets to the ECU. The bike will turn over and over but never fires because the ECU doesn't know when to create spark.

The alternator housing is on the left had side of the bike as you sit on it. The crank position sensor sits within this housing.

The wires for the stator and CPS pass through a bushing together and can't be separated. The bushing is at the top of the alternator housing. This is why when buying a replacement you have to purchase both the CPS and the Stator together.

According to others on the forum if you test the CPS with a resistance meter across the connector (the white two pin connector under the tank, at least on the 07) it should read around 210 Ohms.

If it reads significantly higher than this say a mega Ohm (1,000,000 Ohms) or above then the CPS is burnt out and will need replacing.

 

[NOLAnuffsaid]

The CPS or crank position sensor sits within the alternator housing and is used by the ECU to determine the point at which to fire each cylinder. It allows the ignition to be advanced with increasing crank speed to keep the ignition optimum.

If the CPS burns out then no crankshaft information gets to the ECU. The bike will turn over and over but never fires because the ECU doesn't know when to create spark.

The alternator housing is on the left had side of the bike as you sit on it. The crank position sensor sits within this housing.

The wires for the stator and CPS pass through a bushing together and can't be separated. The bushing is at the top of the alternator housing. This is why when buying a replacement you have to purchase both the CPS and the Stator together.

According to others on the forum if you test the CPS with a resistance meter across the connector (the white two pin connector under the tank, at least on the 07) it should read around 210 Ohms.

If it reads significantly higher than this say a mega Ohm (1,000,000 Ohms) or above then the CPS is burnt out and will need replacing.

thanx for the details. i hope this isnt the problem for me.

 

[Crazy Paul]

According to others on the forum if you test the CPS with a resistance meter across the connector (the white two pin connector under the tank, at least on the 07) it should read around 210 Ohms.

If it reads significantly higher than this say a mega Ohm (1,000,000 Ohms) or above then the CPS is burnt out and will need replacing.

Ok, I am trying to locate this 2 pin connector with no joy. Can someone point me in the right direction please!

 

[shell015]

Time to revive this thread since it was a godsend to solve my issue when my 675 wouldn't start at the track yesterday (6/12/2011). I ran at Virginia International Raceway with NESBA all day Saturday with no issues. Ran the first two sessions on Sunday, track went quiet at 11 AM for lunch/Sunday quite time with no issue apparent then either.

The bikes sat quiet for about 1.5 hours, and then get the call for the third session at noon. Geared up, get in the saddle, turn it on, hit start and just a get the "whir, whir, whir, whir" of the engine spinning, but not firing. I tried flipping on/off switch a few times and even the side stand up/down thinking a switch needed to be making a better connection. Still no start. I un-mount (rather PO'ed), get my gear off, and start troubleshooting.

The tank comes off, airbox comes off, pull a plug to check for a spark and nada. OK, it's electrical. Great (not really!). This will likely take a long time getting this figured out. I decide my day is done. I go get my half day credit thanks to a generous NESBA policy to issue half day credit if you have a mechanical failure (or crash) that prevents you from getting on the track before the start of the 4th session.

I button the bike back up since I don't want to deal with it at the track trying to solve an issue. I grab my laptop and sit down under my canopy with a frosty adult beverage and searched this forum to help diagnose my issue. I found this thread that leads me to think the CPS (crank position sensor) might be the first thing I check when I get home. I loaded up the bike and hung out with my other buddies (still riding. Bastards!) for the afternoon with a couple more frosty adult beverages (pacing myself), then rolled 90 miles home.

Fast forward to this morning. I pull the tank off to find the CPS connector here:

Throw on my multi-meter and get this Ohms reading on the "2000" setting:

I up the setting to "200K" to get this:

This is way too high according to the above suggestion of 210 ohms.

I turn around in my garage and see this sitting there:

It's another story on why I have a spare 675 engine in my garage, but seeing the connector for the CPS, I throw the multi-meter on the "2000" setting and get this :

BINGO! That's what I want to see! That's "209 ohms" if you can't see it. I unbutton the case cover, yank out the stator that is permanently connected to the sensor and turn back around to the non-running 675 engine. Here's the good stator with sensor on the floor below my now disassembled /turned around alternator cover:

This is the sensor it's self:

and this is where it's positioned in the case cover:

I make the swap of the stators/sensors, fish the wiring under the coolant bottle and back into position to reconnect to the wiring harness, button it all back up, put the tank on the bike, then turn on the ignition saying a few prayers. Hit the start button and hear the sweet sound of the inline 3 cylinder engine purring like a kitten. Hahhhhhh… the sweet sound of success!

I hope this helps others out there that might have a perfectly running 675 showing no signs of looming failure. If you ever find yourself baffled about why your bike was running just fine last time you turned it off, and then it won't start, you might want to refer to this solution.

 

[Ruby Racing]

Great post! :thumbup:

But why the small text? :angry: :biggrinjester:

 

[Bamboo671]

What would be considered too high of a reading? I am getting 220ohms. Is that ok or should I be worried?