Asking to "see radar" - Page 2 - Triumph675.Net Forums
LEO Law Enforcement Officers - Q & A

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #11 of 19 Old 05-06-11, 07:50
ladidadi
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Funkytown
Posts: 21
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Anyone who has operated these guns knows there are hundred different ways to get diff readings.
The most simple is pointing it at ground, then raising it to target you quickly (adding the speed of the gun).
You can point them at low flying planes to get licence losing readings.
But yeh, look at the gun, cuz I wouldn't put it above some cops adding a km or 2 to put you in the next demerit category.
ladidadi is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 19 Old 05-06-11, 10:38
Selkie
Member
 
Selkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 166
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Just to clear things up - The cop was not using a radar gun. He had a radar unit mounted in his back window. Had he been using a gun he would be accurate with a proper tune of about +-1mph. The units mounted in the vehicle are accurate to a certain point. But if you are going to court to try and convince the judge that you were only speeding 10mph over the speed limit then you'll probably look like a dumbass.

(Q)What is the "Cosine Effect"?
(A)The Cosine Effect is a radar measured speed error due to the angle between the radar and target vehicle or object.

(Q)How does the Cosine Effect influence measured speed?
(A)The Cosine Effect causes a stationary radar to measure speeds low, the greater the angle the lower the measured speed. Moving mode radar may measure target speed HIGH in some situations.

(Q)Which angle is the Cosine Effect angle?
(A)The Cosine Effect angle (from the target vehicle's point of view) is the angle between the direction of the target vehicle and the radar. If the target vehicle is traveling directly toward (or away) from the radar, the Cosine Effect angle is 0 degrees (no error).

(Q)How large or small is the Cosine Effect error?
(A)The greater the angle, the greater the error. The error is a function of the cosine of the angle, thus Cosine Effect error. Measured speed = actual speed multiplied by the cosine of the angle.

2010 Tornado Red 675 - Vela
2008 Xterra OR - Jaws
Selkie is offline  
post #13 of 19 Old 05-06-11, 12:11
adan
Member
 
adan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: College Park, MD and Hoboken, NJ
Posts: 601
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
you guys are misinterpreting what I mean by resolution. OP said there was a car NEXT to him. I am not saying anything about angle of incidence changing the doppler effect, nor am I saying to check his calibration, because there is no way it is out, I am saying with the beam spread, there isn't a way for him to definitively say that the reflected waves were not off of the car in the closer lane.
adan is offline  
 
post #14 of 19 Old 05-06-11, 12:47 Thread Starter
harcourt
Member
Threadstarter Threadstarter
 
harcourt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 572
Thanks: 29
Thanked 45 Times in 39 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selkie View Post
Just to clear things up - The cop was not using a radar gun. He had a radar unit mounted in his back window. Had he been using a gun he would be accurate with a proper tune of about +-1mph. The units mounted in the vehicle are accurate to a certain point. But if you are going to court to try and convince the judge that you were only speeding 10mph over the speed limit then you'll probably look like a dumbass.

(Q)What is the "Cosine Effect"?
(A)The Cosine Effect is a radar measured speed error due to the angle between the radar and target vehicle or object.

(Q)How does the Cosine Effect influence measured speed?
(A)The Cosine Effect causes a stationary radar to measure speeds low, the greater the angle the lower the measured speed. Moving mode radar may measure target speed HIGH in some situations.

(Q)Which angle is the Cosine Effect angle?
(A)The Cosine Effect angle (from the target vehicle's point of view) is the angle between the direction of the target vehicle and the radar. If the target vehicle is traveling directly toward (or away) from the radar, the Cosine Effect angle is 0 degrees (no error).

(Q)How large or small is the Cosine Effect error?
(A)The greater the angle, the greater the error. The error is a function of the cosine of the angle, thus Cosine Effect error. Measured speed = actual speed multiplied by the cosine of the angle.
So after using simple math calculations, the angle of 24 ft by 100 ft away came to 13.5 degrees. According to your explanation of the cosine effect error: 75 = x * cos13.5 therefore x (my actual speed) is closer to 77 mph? SO, you're saying the radar error is to my disadvantage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by adan View Post
you guys are misinterpreting what I mean by resolution. OP said there was a car NEXT to him. I am not saying anything about angle of incidence changing the doppler effect, nor am I saying to check his calibration, because there is no way it is out, I am saying with the beam spread, there isn't a way for him to definitively say that the reflected waves were not off of the car in the closer lane.
I agree with you. But I think Selkie is just explaining that there is also another added factor: the distance I was away from the car (perpendicularly) that changes things.

'08 Daytona 675 SE
'14 Street Triple R
harcourt is offline  
post #15 of 19 Old 05-06-11, 21:57
Selkie
Member
 
Selkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 166
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
A little bit more research and I think your angle compared to the cop is insignificant. If you were at a greater angle than you would have a higher probability that his radar was off. Maybe increase your angle, confuse the judge and cop, and hope for the best? lol

http://copradar.com/preview/chapt2/ch2d1.html

2010 Tornado Red 675 - Vela
2008 Xterra OR - Jaws
Selkie is offline  
post #16 of 19 Old 05-07-11, 01:26
ryan00davis
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 175
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to ryan00davis
I cant comment on the laws in your state, but in california, you can fight a traffic ticket by mail (trial by written declaration), and if you lose, you can still request a court date (trail de novo).

note that I am not affiliated with this site in any way, but there is a lot of info here that helped me back when i got a ticket by laser gun for 63 in a 45 in my s2000: http://www.ticketassassin.com/fight.html

there is a section in there on radar spread, but it basically states what you already know, at your distance from the radar, you will be reading more than one lane, so if someone is speeding in the lane next to you, it can pick that up.

I am not sure if the trial by mail is an option in every state, but if it is, i highly recommend it. my case was dismissed for "no contest"

send me a PM if you want any more info.
ryan00davis is offline  
post #17 of 19 Old 05-07-11, 06:18
ladidadi
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Funkytown
Posts: 21
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The "cosine" effect? Your gonna use algebra to get out of a ticket.
If a cop wants to give you a ticket, he can make it happen, simple. He can plant a dime bag on you too if he wants. Going to court with equations is like going on Judge Judy and thinking you wont look dumb.
just grin and bear it farkk
ladidadi is offline  
post #18 of 19 Old 05-12-11, 19:44
redmosquito1
Member
 
redmosquito1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Clarkston, MI
Posts: 653
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
File a freedom of information act request for the officers training records, test records on the day he nabbed you and the calibration records on the radar unit. They have to give you that info, take the info and look for flaws like the unit hadn't been tested in a few days or is late on the calibration, or even the officers training is out of date. Raise these issues to the judge, in america your are innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, you just need to raise a doubt in the judges mind that something is a miss.

I fought and won a ticket in a similar fashion. I didn't file the FOIA request but brought the issues up in front of the magistrate and the officer couldn't produce his test record. It was tossed on the grounds that the radar wasn't calibrated correctly and since there was a possibility of inaccuracies they couldn't prove I was guilty. The officer wasn't happy but whatever.
redmosquito1 is offline  
post #19 of 19 Old 02-23-13, 22:06
MIKe30
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 6
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Request a hearing, look professional, be humble, and ask for mercy. If you showed up to a hearing against me with the arrogant attitude as described above and demanding things, then I'd try my best to nail you to the full extent instead of being happy I got court time and letting you slide with a lesser penalty that saves your insurance rates. Not to mention the judge would pick up on your attitude, and be more inclined to side with me more-so than he normally is in the first place.

Anyway, good luck with it bud.

Edit: Just realized I suckered myself into resurrecting an old thread. That's what I get for searching and then getting distracted. First post fail.
MIKe30 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Triumph675.Net Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode


Forum Jump

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome