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Trusting my bike in a turn.

8K views 13 replies 12 participants last post by  speedracer16v 
#1 ·
When going into a turn, I feel as though I know when I reach my limit.

Maybe it's my Twist of the Wrist SR's kicking in, but I want to be able to control them and trust my bike.

For example, when I turn in and know my posture is correct, I always want to enter that corner faster as I know it is possible.

I find myself not wanting to trust my bike as I lean into the corner to stay gripping. It's as though I constantly have a fear of my bike going into a low slide. I lost a good friend recently who was a skilled rider, a successful engineer and by no means a taker of unnecessary risks.

I wonder if that has something to do with it, however I want to continue to safely push myself to trust my bike when going into a corner faster.

My Daytona has brand new Pirelli Rosso III's on it and I have broken them in.

Any advice to safely increase your speed/lean angle into a corner? I have read both twist of the wrist 1 and 2 and I religiously apply everything I learned from them.

Cheers.
 
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#2 ·
It happens slowly, at least for me. I'd suggest going to a school to be faster. I did levels 1 and 2 of California Superbike School last year and found it improved my riding tremendously. There are other good schools as well; I can only vouch for CSS.

Even if you haven't done a school, have you done a track day? Riding on the track will also help put your mind at ease from the typical road hazards and allow you to focus on your riding. I'm not nearly as fast on the street as I always leave a much larger margin for error.
 
#3 ·
The best place to learn/work on/gain skills in cornering is NOT on the public road. A trackday is ideal (these are sport bikes afterall), but even a closed course training in a parking lot can teach you a lot about what you and your bike are capable of. Check local police/sherriff's/etc - or an advanced MSF class. Not sure what is/is not available in your area, but there's probably something to help you.

Most riders have "lean angle memory" meaning there's a certain lean angle you are used to and comfortable with, and going beyond that feels sketchy. Most of the time, it's not the bike, either.

Understanding the proper techniques while cornering is HUGE. It's great to read a book, that's an awesome place to start, but it doesn't quite compare to working with a good coach who can help you pick out the right things to work on that will make the biggest difference the fastest.

Controlling your SRs is going to come from proper technique, and proper technique comes from proper instruction. The fact that you want to learn is great. I'd look into some track schools near you and work with a good coach.
 
#9 ·
Yep, this ^^^

I got a little over confident on my Daytona after I brought it home and laid it down in a turn on a public road. I usually don't ride that aggressive on roads, but it was early and there wasn't anyone around. However, as soon as I went down I had an image of a car squishing me and it definitely shook me up. The upside was that I figured out how far I could push it in a turn like that. Downside was a bruised ego, bent forks, beat up body (even though i was in my track suit), and a general feeling of being an idiot for riding like that on the road.

Limits are for the track.
 
#5 ·
Awesome advice guys, thank you.

I do plan to hit up a track day here soon, however I'd like to buy a beaten up CBR600RR to do it on instead of risking my 2012 675R.

And I totally agree about leaving a larger margin for error when on the road. I do it all the time.

Cheers and thanks a bunch!
 
#7 ·
I agree, do your trackday on the bike you are comfortable with. I just bought my 675R in June, and already done a day with mine. My Daytona R is leaps and bounds better than my 2009 Daytona. This new one inspires so much confidence, my instructor said I should ask to be bumped to intermediate. It is MEANT to be ridden fast.
 
#8 ·
OP sounds a lot like me.. our sense of self preservation stands at odds with our sense of adventure. The limit is out there, somewhere.. But it's true, you're not going to find it on the street. Not safely, anyway. You probably won't find it on your 675 at the track, either.. not if you feel anxious (fearful) on that bike.

I made vast improvements in cornering speeds over the three track days I did on my "throwaway" Ninja 300, compared to the previous three track days I did.. 1st on a GSX-R 750 (yikes!) and then two on my Street Triple R. With only 300 cc's you greatly mitigate SR trigger #1: "in too fast".. allowing you to better focus on the other techniques, besides braking, as you gradually up the pace. A Ninja 250/300 (or CBR250/300, R3, etc) with stock suspension and tires is capable of lean angles you've probably never attempted.

And here's the thing you need to remind yourself. You and I both.. When you use the techniques you've been practicing (esp. body position, throttle control, reference points) exceeding the limit doesn't translate to an instant crash. These street tires are way more forgiving than the stuff the MotoGP guys are running. So at the limit even your Rosso 3's will start to slip/grip, slip/grip, etc. As long as you are well positioned/balanced (not unintentionally steering the bike) and don't panic and chop the throttle or grab the brakes, it won't even feel like a near crash. You'll ride on through it and try a different approach on the next lap.

Vision is such a big component. It takes a deliberate effort to keep your eyes on (the right) target, especially with low clip on handlebars. Craning your neck, raising your eyebrows, whatever it takes to get a clear view. And without visual reference points you will get lost, confused, afraid, and slow. At your first track day you'll be out there with paid instructors. Follow their lines, and use them to build your own map of reference points. You'll need them later when you find an open stretch of track.

Practice these techniques on a bike you're comfortable on (adjustable rearsets and tank grips help) and eventually you'll feel relaxed enough to hit those knee-dragging lean angles.
 
#13 ·
*snip*

And here's the thing you need to remind yourself. You and I both.. When you use the techniques you've been practicing (esp. body position, throttle control, reference points) exceeding the limit doesn't translate to an instant crash. These street tires are way more forgiving than the stuff the MotoGP guys are running. So at the limit even your Rosso 3's will start to slip/grip, slip/grip, etc. As long as you are well positioned/balanced (not unintentionally steering the bike) and don't panic and chop the throttle or grab the brakes, it won't even feel like a near crash. You'll ride on through it and try a different approach on the next lap.

*snip*

Practice these techniques on a bike you're comfortable on (adjustable rearsets and tank grips help) and eventually you'll feel relaxed enough to hit those knee-dragging lean angles.
So much truth. I experienced my first "pushed too far" moment at the track this weekend. I was going through a left hander dragging my knee. I've started lifting my knee off the deck to save the pucks. But then from time to time I would just lean a little more again. This time, however, as I added more lean angle I felt the bars twist left and the front break loose.

I was lowsiding! I tend to be off the bike quite a bit. Decent body position saved me in this scenario.
 
#11 ·
One thing I've noticed with this bike is It goes exactly where you look.
It's completely different feel to some bikes, but yeh the Rake means it almost oversteers, so you just gotta look where your going
and let the bike lean.
Unless your in rain/oil, You will scrape your boot before your tyres give out
 
#12 ·
As an MSF instructor, my recommendation would be to take the Advanced Rider Course before going on a track day. Its cheaper than a track day and has a lot less involved (no need to "prep" the bike for the ARC). The ARC is a day long course that will teach you important riding skills that you can use on the street as well as the track. A track day would also be beneficial, but from a cost effectiveness standpoint its hard to beat the ARC. It is dependent on how good your instructor is, but you get out of it what you put into it. Practicing and mastering the art of cornering in a controlled environment will greatly improve your abilities in a limited control environment.
 
#14 ·
Plenty of great tips there!

Things that helped me:
- track days, track days, track days (no trees, cars or vehicles coming in the opposite direction)
- master class with Cameron Donald :thumbup:
- look up an image of the tyre contact patch when upright vs lent over (hint: its much bigger lent over)
- get a lites bike for the track (I'm now doing faster times on my 1989 CBR250R than I was on my Daytona) this will help you get comfortable with higher corner speeds
- self-paced online training (because I can't remember everything I learn in a one day master class), I used Life at Lean: http://speedracer.lifeatlean.zaxaa.com/s/10995019527322
 
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