Help CEL P0203 - Injector 3, circuit malfunction - Triumph675.Net Forums
General Racing Discussions Discussion area for any non 675 related racing (Moto GP, World Superbike, etc) & general race set up / questions.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 11 Old 11-04-18, 14:24 Thread Starter
675ing
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 66
Thanks: 30
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Question Help CEL P0203 - Injector 3, circuit malfunction

Background:
Bike was parked May-Oct this yr. Poured in tank fuel stabilizer gasoline formula to "keep the fuel fresh during storage, prevent resin build-up & corrosion..." (friend's advice). Oct came so did maintenance and mods: Engine Oil & Filter, Brake Fluid, Galfer ABS bypass brake lines (plugged abs with some bolts), Woodcraft GP shift conversion, changed handlebar grips, new tires and brake pads. Took it to the track and then this happened:

Issue:
Few min after warm up, engine sounds choppy and slow/retarded. Sluggish throttle response far from crisp. A minute later theres a major loss of power and now sounds like only 2 cylinders are working. Bike becomes a struggle to cruise with. Check Engine Light pops up. Then engine shuts off on its own.

Repairs attempted:
Turned bike off/on and now it immediately jumps to 2 cylinders working and shuts off. Disconnected/reconnected battery did the same. Tried again only held the throttle open a little to avoid it from shutting off and then when I let off the throttle the bike was still revving for a good couple seconds (as if my hand held it at a certain rpm range) . It was long enough for a spectator in the pits to raise his eyebrows in shock.

Used DealerTool found fault code P0203- Injector 3, Circuit malfunction (pic attached). Cleared code. Started again and it sounded fine. Moments later its back again. Mechanic cleaned injectors to flow equally. One was slightly dirty but far from blocked. Injectors filters replaced. Fault repeated. Swapped the injector connections bypassing the bazzaz zfi-TC unit and said the problem was the bazzaz. Engine runs fine without the bazzaz (for a few minutes we didnt try it for much longer). Reconnected bazzaz looked at bazzaz light and it was on. Moved some wires and light stayed on. Checked wires and everything well connected no broken pins no issues. Checked fuel line not bent. As the mechanic attempted to swapped from bazzaz to OEM connections I noticed that every time he lifted up the tank the check engine light immediately came on and engine shuts off and would barely/not want to start.

Took off the tank, emptied fuel was noticeably dirty. Pulled out pump also dirty. Fuel pump filter was very dirty. Cleaned everything as best we could and looked noticeably better. Theres another filter inside the pump unit that could not be removed for cleaning but we tried to flush it clean (using petrol of course) air pressured everything dry. Removed the tank fuel level sensor unit cleaned and checked it with a voltage meter read fine (although I dont know why my fuel level gauge never works til I start riding). Reinstalled everything. This took about an hour. Cleared all fault codes and this time we started with the bazzaz zfi tc connected. Engine sounded great! Throttle was shockingly crisp and almost felt like I could control it within ~50 rpms and theres 0 lag . Mechanic was confident to put bike together and take it home. I insisted we leave it running for 30 min. After 25 minutes, the engine shuts off. CEL back with the same code. Engine sounds awful. Horrible throttle control. Same issue repeats .

Stuff that I have as spares that I could replace/use during troubleshooting:
Bazzaz ZFI (no TC)
Kemso Fuel pump 13802 and filters.

Questions:
1- What happened during those 25 minutes that changed everything from perfection?
2- 30min runtime each time is taking too long to repeat over and over, anyway to shorten this?
3- Is the kemso fuel pump good? (previous owner passed it to me.. and said dont use )
4- What is the correct sequence of events to tackle this and isolate the problem?
5- If the same "injector 3 circuit malfunction" reoccurs could it possibly be anything besides the injector?
6- someone (i have issues trusting) mentioned, I would need to replace the full harness to compliment the abs bypass brake lines and that is the reason Im having issues. Could he be right?
7- What would be a clear indicator that bazzaz is the problem?
8- Are these bikes notorious for faulty injectors?

As of now my plan of action is:
1- Swap injector 3 with injector 1
2- bypass bazzaz injector connections with oem.

dunno what else. Any tips appreciated.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	injector malfunction.jpg
Views:	36
Size:	100.8 KB
ID:	247999  

Heard HTMOTO has great seats. Their website does not have Paypal checkout.
Hoped their website is secure when I manually entered credit card info. Moments later, I have approx $3000 of fraud transactions from strange websites.
NEVER enter your credit card details in HTMOTO website.

Last edited by 675ing; 11-05-18 at 07:03.
675ing is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 Old 11-05-18, 06:50 Thread Starter
675ing
Junior Member
Threadstarter Threadstarter
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 66
Thanks: 30
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
1-Bypassed bazzaz. Started bike. 35 min no issues.
2- Plugged bazzaz ZFI-non tc (keeping in mind my original issue started on zfi tc) started bike. After 9 min it turned off. Restarted and immediately threw CEL same injector 3 code.
3- Cleared the code. Swapped injector #3 & #1. Started bike. Threw CEL immediately again injector 3 code.
4- Cleared code. Swapped ZFI with ZFI TC. Immediately threw CEL injector 3 code again.
5- Cleared code. Bypassed bazzaz. Started engine and ran 10 min no code then overheated (spilled coolant) and we turned it off.

Weird how its throwing code on both bazzaz modules.
Mechanic says should it be the bazzaz harness it would happen immediately without wait time.
Both bazzaz modules are running the same map.
checked fuel pump pressure was good.

Heard HTMOTO has great seats. Their website does not have Paypal checkout.
Hoped their website is secure when I manually entered credit card info. Moments later, I have approx $3000 of fraud transactions from strange websites.
NEVER enter your credit card details in HTMOTO website.
675ing is offline  
post #3 of 11 Old 11-05-18, 14:50 Thread Starter
675ing
Junior Member
Threadstarter Threadstarter
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 66
Thanks: 30
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Ok so checked again and suddenly with bazzaz it’s not throwing a code anymore even after 2 attempts of continuous running of the engine for 45min.

Anyone got a wiring diagram so I could check the volts from the injectors all the way back? What relay/fuse to check... Which wire from the ecu to check etc.

Heard HTMOTO has great seats. Their website does not have Paypal checkout.
Hoped their website is secure when I manually entered credit card info. Moments later, I have approx $3000 of fraud transactions from strange websites.
NEVER enter your credit card details in HTMOTO website.
675ing is offline  
post #4 of 11 Old 11-05-18, 18:02
AYoDread
Member
 
AYoDread's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: N/A
Posts: 318
Thanks: 0
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
Keep in mind I am a car tech not a motorcycle tech. So I apply what I do in the shop to my bike. I have never had an injector issue (knock on wood) but this is what I would do.

1. Like you already have, I would swapped another injector with #3 injector after clearing the code in order to see if I am getting the same fault.

2. If yes, then I would plug back in my stock wiring and see if the code comes back again

2. if no, I would think its an injector issue. Look up specs and Ohm out each injector and compare it to spec (with ohm basically you are shooting 1v through the circuit from the positive lead on your DVOM to your negative Lead. If there is any resistance it will show up on you Digital Volt Ohm Meter in Ohms) If you have an open in the injector or if the ohms are too high I would replace that one.

3. If the code doesn't come back like in your situation I know its the bazzaz computer or wiring. Next is the tedious part of tracing the wires to the correct pin.
So lets say the power wire is white and the negative wire coming off the injector is ground. I would check for 12.volts (aka battery voltage or close to it) at the white wire and a good ground at my black wire. Since there are not a lot of connections between my injector wire and PCM I would not like to see no more than 1 volt drop from so if my battery is at 12.5v with the key on engine off, I would like to see 12.5v - 11.9v anything less than 11.9v I would know its something in the wiring.

Next with the key off battery disconnected and connectors disconnect from the injector at on end and Computer at the other, I would ohm out both wires.

In your case it sounds like you have a pinched wire. so I would test the wiring with the tank closed.

"I don't know who you noobs are. I don't know what you noobs want. If you are looking for attention, I can tell you I don't have a long span. But, what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very large amount of posts. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you drop this now, that'll be the end of it. I will not Google you, I will not photochop you. But if you don't, I will search the webnets for you, I will find you, and I will pwn you."
AYoDread is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to AYoDread For This Useful Post:
675ing (11-06-18)
post #5 of 11 Old 11-06-18, 12:56 Thread Starter
675ing
Junior Member
Threadstarter Threadstarter
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 66
Thanks: 30
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AYoDread View Post
Keep in mind I am a car tech not a motorcycle tech. So I apply what I do in the shop to my bike. I have never had an injector issue (knock on wood) but this is what I would do.

1. Like you already have, I would swapped another injector with #3 injector after clearing the code in order to see if I am getting the same fault.

2. If yes, then I would plug back in my stock wiring and see if the code comes back again

2. if no, I would think its an injector issue. Look up specs and Ohm out each injector and compare it to spec (with ohm basically you are shooting 1v through the circuit from the positive lead on your DVOM to your negative Lead. If there is any resistance it will show up on you Digital Volt Ohm Meter in Ohms) If you have an open in the injector or if the ohms are too high I would replace that one.

3. If the code doesn't come back like in your situation I know its the bazzaz computer or wiring. Next is the tedious part of tracing the wires to the correct pin.
So lets say the power wire is white and the negative wire coming off the injector is ground. I would check for 12.volts (aka battery voltage or close to it) at the white wire and a good ground at my black wire. Since there are not a lot of connections between my injector wire and PCM I would not like to see no more than 1 volt drop from so if my battery is at 12.5v with the key on engine off, I would like to see 12.5v - 11.9v anything less than 11.9v I would know its something in the wiring.

Next with the key off battery disconnected and connectors disconnect from the injector at on end and Computer at the other, I would ohm out both wires.

In your case it sounds like you have a pinched wire. so I would test the wiring with the tank closed.
Thanks for the awesome reply buddy.
Started it again today 50min idle no issues.
10 min road test no issues.

With it suddenly ‘repairing itself’ it’s pointless to test anything now since everything is perfectly now working?

No idea what to do.

Heard HTMOTO has great seats. Their website does not have Paypal checkout.
Hoped their website is secure when I manually entered credit card info. Moments later, I have approx $3000 of fraud transactions from strange websites.
NEVER enter your credit card details in HTMOTO website.
675ing is offline  
post #6 of 11 Old 10-14-19, 07:31 Thread Starter
675ing
Junior Member
Threadstarter Threadstarter
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 66
Thanks: 30
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
So a year or so later, the same issue repeated.
Dug this thread up and did this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AYoDread View Post
with the key off battery disconnected and connectors disconnect from the injector at on end and Computer at the other, I would ohm out both wires.

In your case it sounds like you have a pinched wire. so I would test the wiring with the tank closed.
turns out this was exactly the problem! Bad continuity in the wire.
Traced all wires from injector 3 end out and we found the wire from the ECU going to the injector was bad. Bazzaz wires to the injectors were good.

What the mechanic did was shake some wires around while the engine was running and noticed a cylinder suddenly stop/start working.

Pinched wire was the problem!
Now will try to guess what caused the pinching and put some better wire loom.

Thanks AYoDread. God bless you bro.

EDIT: Different problem found read later post. It was the bazzaz socket that had poor contact.

Heard HTMOTO has great seats. Their website does not have Paypal checkout.
Hoped their website is secure when I manually entered credit card info. Moments later, I have approx $3000 of fraud transactions from strange websites.
NEVER enter your credit card details in HTMOTO website.

Last edited by 675ing; 10-22-19 at 12:26. Reason: Different solution found.
675ing is offline  
post #7 of 11 Old 10-17-19, 22:50
AYoDread
Member
 
AYoDread's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: N/A
Posts: 318
Thanks: 0
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 675ing View Post
So a year or so later, the same issue repeated.
Dug this thread up and did this:



turns out this was exactly the problem! Bad continuity in the wire.
Traced all wires from injector 3 end out and we found the wire from the ECU going to the injector was bad. Bazzaz wires to the injectors were good.

What the mechanic did was shake some wires around while the engine was running and noticed a cylinder suddenly stop/start working.

Pinched wire was the problem!
Now will try to guess what caused the pinching and put some better wire loom.

Thanks AYoDread. God bless you bro.
Glad to hear man! Wow! I forgot all about this thread. I was worried I got a little too detail there.

"I don't know who you noobs are. I don't know what you noobs want. If you are looking for attention, I can tell you I don't have a long span. But, what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very large amount of posts. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you drop this now, that'll be the end of it. I will not Google you, I will not photochop you. But if you don't, I will search the webnets for you, I will find you, and I will pwn you."
AYoDread is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to AYoDread For This Useful Post:
675ing (10-22-19)
post #8 of 11 Old 10-22-19, 05:06 Thread Starter
675ing
Junior Member
Threadstarter Threadstarter
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 66
Thanks: 30
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AYoDread View Post
I was worried I got a little too detail there.
Definitely greatly detailed. For a non electric engineer background, I must say my earlier brain just spaced out once I read Ohm/positive lead/DVOM lol... Until I got tired of my bike issues and I finally googled and youtubed all the words in your post and came to realise how great all the content is!

Heard HTMOTO has great seats. Their website does not have Paypal checkout.
Hoped their website is secure when I manually entered credit card info. Moments later, I have approx $3000 of fraud transactions from strange websites.
NEVER enter your credit card details in HTMOTO website.
675ing is offline  
post #9 of 11 Old 10-22-19, 12:32 Thread Starter
675ing
Junior Member
Threadstarter Threadstarter
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 66
Thanks: 30
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
EDIT:

So the problem seemed differently than previously diagnosed. The wire we previously found is connected to a bazzaz socket and the bazzaz male to female socket has poor contact. The pins inside must be bad. Moved the sockets a bit while engine is running and a cylinder stopped working. Apparently bazzaz sockets are notoriously bad.

Heard HTMOTO has great seats. Their website does not have Paypal checkout.
Hoped their website is secure when I manually entered credit card info. Moments later, I have approx $3000 of fraud transactions from strange websites.
NEVER enter your credit card details in HTMOTO website.
675ing is offline  
post #10 of 11 Old 10-23-19, 22:43
AYoDread
Member
 
AYoDread's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: N/A
Posts: 318
Thanks: 0
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 675ing View Post
EDIT:

So the problem seemed differently than previously diagnosed. The wire we previously found is connected to a bazzaz socket and the bazzaz male to female socket has poor contact. The pins inside must be bad. Moved the sockets a bit while engine is running and a cylinder stopped working. Apparently bazzaz sockets are notoriously bad.
I never knew this, I was check for this next time I have an issue with my bazzaz unit.

Did you figure out the issue?





side note, if you ever need help understanding Electrical ask away. I am no engineer but I learn about something new until I can teach it , then I move on to something else.

"I don't know who you noobs are. I don't know what you noobs want. If you are looking for attention, I can tell you I don't have a long span. But, what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very large amount of posts. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you drop this now, that'll be the end of it. I will not Google you, I will not photochop you. But if you don't, I will search the webnets for you, I will find you, and I will pwn you."
AYoDread is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Triumph675.Net Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode


Forum Jump

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome