Originally Posted by tottenham12712
Im not going to argue about this in someone elses thread but ill say this. Your feel starts with damping and spring rate, If you didnt have any damping or movement you wouldnt feel anything. I can tell you right now that damping 100% effects feel/feedback, is it the only thing? No. But it is very important. Just because the damping is adjustable does not mean the flow is correct for the weight of the bike, the oem valve is designed for a certain amount of movement and flow, the adjustment for a lighter smaller bike may not fall in range of that oem valve.
Your comments about abruptly braking vs smoothly braking is the key, you changed the dynamic of the bike including geometry and your riding style needed to change to support it. You reduced the spring rate because the hydraulics were better at damping then the stock setup which will also change how the bike feels. I just went through this after installing a DDS cart kit into my 675r. I had to re learn how to brake, but im now faster and more confident with the front end.
Dont bother comparing what you see/hear in motogp vs what you have between your legs right now, they are so far apart its comparing apples to planets.You are doing a disservice to yourself by not allowing anyone to persuade you with a proper argument behind it. Thats how you learn new things and push yourself further.
Well, I'm not feeling I'm arguing, I'm just discussing, I don't have the need to persuade anyone, and given some good arguments I don't have a problem in changing opinion - I've done it may times in the past. It's all in the spirit of a gentlemanly exchange of opinions, nothing more. Just because we are disagreeing doesn't mean there's an argument. After all that's what the forum is all about isn't it? Having said that of course, I've got to return the "disservice" comment as it works both ways: we actually both have arguments, not just you.
So, about our talk, what you say about damping and dynamics has merit, and not only do I agree on the different dynamics due to the different damping characteristics but I also have an understanding behind the technicalities of it. What you don't know however, (although I mentioned it) is how well the suspension (the GSXR fork) worked on the SV. It did move and it did damp, properly and controllably. (By the way I didn't change the springs until well later - my first experiences came with the stock springs which were softer than the SVs - which were aftermarket. Eventually I changed them to harder ones but there was no fundamental change in braking dynamics or feel apart from the bike diving less). There's no way of course to persuade you about this, it's just my word.
What I said about MotoGP is about a general principle that applies to all machines with wheels. All conventionally-sprung motorcycles (and MotoGP are such since they have telescopic forks) work on the same principles as the physics that affect them are the same. Stiffness equals less feel and I've been reading this throughout my 18 years on motorcycles and reading about them. If I remember well, Tony Foale in his true Bible "Motorcycle Handling and Chassis Design" mentions it. Truly amazing book, found many answers to issues I had and still have*. I also remember a story when Mick Doohan had total lack of feel from his NSR front (don't remember the year) and his championship was on the line. What they did, (he and Geremy Burgess) was to remove two mounting bolts from the engine, to allow more flex into the chassis and... voila the miracle happened (I think it's somewhere in his biography: "Mick Doohan: Thunder from Down Under"). Even cars are governed by the same principle: a flexible chassis gives more feel to the driver, I've also heard this many times. And... after my experiments and trying various bikes I've been persuaded myself too. I had an AX-1 once, a 250cc trail bike with road tyres... it was so goddamn flexible that when I got to the SV I felt like there was no information whatsoever. It took me about 6 months to learn how to "listen" to the new bike. And guess what: They both had damping rod forks - simple holes for the oil to get through, with very similar damping characteristics. The difference with the USD fork is that I never got to learn how to listen to it. It just never spoke enough under braking.
The bottom line is that if you disagree with my advice against the OPs willingness to purchase a 43mm fork due to my claiming it gives less feel then I don't have a problem but I'm standing by my opinion with the asterisk of not being able to tell the exact extent to what stiffness alone is responsible for that lack of feel I experienced.
*One of the most bizarre issues I have experienced that Foale explains thoroughly, is why on slippery asphalt when the bike is tipped-in somewhat abruptly, it may lose front wheel traction momentarily, although it has just started leaning. The answer lies in the gyroscopic force applied on the tyre plus the rotating inertia of the motorcycle - the two combined create a momentary heavy lateral load on the tyre which goes away after the bike has leaned to some degree. There's even a graph showing the escalation of this lateral load. There's an abrupt "spike" before the load falls and then gradually climbs as the bike continues to lean further.