Hydraulic Tensioner Explained - Triumph675.Net Forums
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post #1 of 6 Old 09-25-18, 11:58 Thread Starter
MacaveliMC
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Hydraulic Tensioner Explained

Hi Guys,

I've had a lot of issues with my bike running well recently. After going over everything else (replacing charging system, checking coils and plugs, checking fuel pump and injectors, valve clearances), I ended up on the cam chain.

I pulled out the chain and attempted to measure it per the procedure in the manual and it seems to be out of spec/too long. So I ordered a new one.

I pulled out the tensioner and was going to order a manual one, but after conversing with Jamie Hanshaw from Hanshaw Race Engines, who's built many a Triumph race engine, he said:

"The manual cam chain tensioner probably the worst thing you could install. The inline 3 cylinder engines have the highest cam torque energy as there is no canceling cylinder to cylinder like the I4s have. You must retain the stock tensioner."

I'm sure based on experience some people on this forum disagree, however I think I am going to stick with the hydraulic for now.

That being said, when I pulled it out, I noticed the clip was on the very last groove on the cylinder - the cylinder was basically adjusted as far out as it could go. This also seems to me to be proof the chain is stretched out.

I've read the instructions on another thread about how to "reset" the tensioner, by pushing it all the way in and setting the locking clip on the end....then once installed, to release it by pushing on it slightly. My question is this: how does this other clip operate? What causes it to adjust and jump grooves on the piston? Does it happen automatically when the chain loosens and oil pressure pushes the cylinder out farther? I'm worried I'll put it on the first groove and it won't jump grooves/adjust if/when needed.

I appreciate any insight, thanks!

- Mike
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post #2 of 6 Old 09-25-18, 17:59
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Unfortunately I don't have any knowledge useful to you.

I'd like to ask however: what issues exactly are you having? I"m asking because I'm having a strange "inconsistent" engine pull that drives me crazy. Going at a certain speed, throttle completely constant & stable, you can feel the bike softly pulling and un-pulling forward, at a frequency of once every second or once every two seconds... It's like there is some... gremlin below the airbox, slightly pulling and releasing the throttle cable, constantly.

I've checked/adjusted/baselined/reset TPS, I've balanced throttle butterflies, I've checked readings from MAP and intake air temp sensors (all normal), I've cleaned injectors, I've changed sprockets & chain.... all to no avail. So before I start dishing out money blindly I'd like to see if anybody else has a similar problem.
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post #3 of 6 Old 09-25-18, 18:10 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasmablaster View Post
Unfortunately I don't have any knowledge useful to you other than when my cam chain became very worn, I started experiencing infrequent pre-ignitions, always at low RPM, like 2500 or 3000. Once it was changed, they were gone.

I'd like to ask: what issues exactly are you having? I"m asking because I'm having a strange "inconsistent" engine pull that drives me crazy. Going at a certain speed, throttle completely constant & stable, you can feel the bike softly pulling and un-pulling forward, at a frequency of once every second or once every two seconds... It's like there is some... gremlin below the airbox, slightly pulling and releasing the throttle cable, constantly.

I've checked/adjusted/baselined/reset TPS, I've balanced throttle butterflies, I've checked readings from MAP and intake air temp sensors (all normal), I've cleaned injectors, I've changed sprockets & chain.... all to no avail. So before I start dishing out money blindly I'd like to see if anybody else has a similar problem.
My problems started out with what felt like I was losing fueling around 8 or 9k rpm's. But all of a sudden it got a lot worse. The bike would barely run, it would stutter on opening the throttle until it reached a certain level, and then when it came back down it would stall out. I figured out something was wrong with the charging system, it ran fine when I ran on just the battery. So I replaced all of that. Now it ran, and no longer stalled, but it ran like crap. Barely any power, popping like crazy on decel, couldn't get the bike out of 4th gear on a straight I usually topped it out on. Finally, I started hearing what sounded like cam chain noise, so I took the bike apart. Sure enough, cam chain is shot. I doubt this is the sole source of all my problems, as I also had to replace the crank sensor, and last winter I replaced the fuel pump. But hopefully this is the last of it. Gonna to a compression test on each cylinder after I reinstall the chain and tensioner.

As for your issue, sounds like it's possibly a fueling issue? If your rpm and throttle are constant, fueling should be too but maybe there is another factor. Hard to diagnose without knowing what on your bike has changed. My bike is a race bike, and has a lot removed. Have you done any modifications to the bike?

I'm not driving fast - I'm flying low

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wide open even when i start the bike. balls to the
wall is how i live, screw stoplights and slow people."
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post #4 of 6 Old 09-25-18, 18:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacaveliMC View Post
Hi Guys,

I've had a lot of issues with my bike running well recently. After going over everything else (replacing charging system, checking coils and plugs, checking fuel pump and injectors, valve clearances), I ended up on the cam chain.

I pulled out the chain and attempted to measure it per the procedure in the manual and it seems to be out of spec/too long. So I ordered a new one.

I pulled out the tensioner and was going to order a manual one, but after conversing with Jamie Hanshaw from Hanshaw Race Engines, who's built many a Triumph race engine, he said:

"The manual cam chain tensioner probably the worst thing you could install. The inline 3 cylinder engines have the highest cam torque energy as there is no canceling cylinder to cylinder like the I4s have. You must retain the stock tensioner."

I'm sure based on experience some people on this forum disagree, however I think I am going to stick with the hydraulic for now.

That being said, when I pulled it out, I noticed the clip was on the very last groove on the cylinder - the cylinder was basically adjusted as far out as it could go. This also seems to me to be proof the chain is stretched out.

I've read the instructions on another thread about how to "reset" the tensioner, by pushing it all the way in and setting the locking clip on the end....then once installed, to release it by pushing on it slightly. My question is this: how does this other clip operate? What causes it to adjust and jump grooves on the piston? Does it happen automatically when the chain loosens and oil pressure pushes the cylinder out farther? I'm worried I'll put it on the first groove and it won't jump grooves/adjust if/when needed.

I appreciate any insight, thanks!

- Mike
For what it's worth Jamie told me the same thing about the tensioner. But plenty of racers use the manual without ill effect and it does resolve some issues that hydraulic tensioners on the older daytonas commonly experienced.

So it's likely fine to use one, just make sure you install and set it properly.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
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post #5 of 6 Old 09-25-18, 18:39
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Oh geez you are having major trouble. I hope you get it all sorted out.



Regarding my problem... the only thing not stock on the bike (a 2010 Street TRiple R) is the fuelling map which has all "emissions" cells reverted to 13.75 (from 14.5) and a removed O2 sensor (replaced by a special plug that always tells the ECU the mixture is ideal). This was a major improvement in engine response as it reduced the twitchiness and nervousness of the bike at low throttle openings.
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post #6 of 6 Old 09-25-18, 18:46 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phicurious86 View Post
For what it's worth Jamie told me the same thing about the tensioner. But plenty of racers use the manual without ill effect and it does resolve some issues that hydraulic tensioners on the older daytonas commonly experienced.

So it's likely fine to use one, just make sure you install and set it properly.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
Hmm, good to know! In case I have anymore issues. I can't really say I've actually had issues with the hydraulic, since the cam chain is shot now. So I'll see how it goes with the new cam chain. Thanks for the tip.

I'm not driving fast - I'm flying low

"I actually just have my throttle cable pulled so its
wide open even when i start the bike. balls to the
wall is how i live, screw stoplights and slow people."
- TwoWheeledWonder
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