Understanding ECU Tuning (tuneECU) - Triumph675.Net Forums
 
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post #1 of 9 Old 07-20-11, 01:20 Thread Starter
Travist140
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Understanding ECU Tuning (tuneECU)

I have a Daytona With TOR exhaust and exup disabled. I have been looking for a tune that compensates for the exup being disabled and noticed there are no oem tunes for this. I have been looking at different tunes very close trying to understand how they work and I am getting very confused by what I see on the tables and what I read on this forum.
My first Questions are about The tune ECU program and the values in the fuel tables.
On the F table and L tables, What are the units the numbers in these two tables represent? I am assuming they are air flow in CFM or liters per minute?
Second question is about the L table. I understand that the ecu uses L tables for low TP openings But what are the A/F values for the L table? Does the A/F table cover both tables F and L? If that is the case then why does table F have values in the areas that the ecu is running on table L If they are never being used? Just trying to understand how it works before change anything.
Now I have a few questions about the oem tunes for the different exhaust systems. I am currently running The TOR tune 20404. From my understanding this tune was made to run with the EXUP enabled and in theory it would be running lean in all places the exup should be anything but fully open. My 675 seems to be running quite rich in these areas. It smells rich and the exhaust tip black and sooty. Do other people have the same experience with this tune?
I had thought about the full arrow tune but reading on this forum everyone says that it is not good for a stock header because it runs way to rich and the arrow full system flows way more fuel all over the rpm range. If you look really close to the full arrow tune and compare it with the TOR/Arrow slip on tune 20404 you will notice that The TOR tune Actually has Greater Air flow values in table F below 5500 Rpm and below 30% TP. In addition to this If you look at the A/F table the full arrow tune actually has Leaner AF numbers in this same area. All of this makes me be believe that the arrow tune would HAVE to run LEANER than the TOR tune on a motorcycle with a gutted stock header. Wouldn't it?
My last question I have is why on earth do all of the tunes except the stock tune run such a rich mixture at cruising rpms and low throttle openings? I would think that for best performance and Economy it would be best to set the AF ratio to 14.5 when cruising so the ECU can switch to closed Loop and the O2 sensor can do its job?
I only get 36 MPG on this bike and I am starting to think maybe I can blame it on the 13:1 fuel ratio at cruising.

IF anyone can make any sense out of this post and help straighten it out that would be great. I seriously feel like my head may explode.
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post #2 of 9 Old 07-20-11, 07:44
Power-Tripp
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Start by downloading and reading the USERS GUIDE.

After reading the above, a few searches on this forum will answer all of your questions.

I don't have an opinion... I have a dynamometer." - David Vizard.
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post #3 of 9 Old 07-20-11, 11:52 Thread Starter
Travist140
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Thanks I missed that somehow. I thought it was crazy that there were no detailed instructions for this program But here they are.
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post #4 of 9 Old 07-21-11, 00:29
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If you're hoping to make adjustments at home to the mapping. Don't do it. You can't do it even remotely accurately and you will cause more problems then it will fix. The only way to do it is with a dyno and a wide band O2 sensor or a product like the Bazzaz box which can be equipped with a wide band O2 sensor and can detect the necessary changes and in affect automatically tune your bike.
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post #5 of 9 Old 07-21-11, 06:32
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Just because you can...

A copy/past from one of my posts on another forum:


As the result of a recent phone conversation, I find myself needing to point out a few things.

More than a few of us have tried to inform many on this site, as well as others, as to the meaning and reasoning of TuneECU, TuneEdit, and other stock ECU interface tuning solutions. And I am the last one to discourage others from learning and doing things on their own. We ALL start at the beginning.

But mapping is not for everyone. Some simply do not have the information and understanding of engine management. Or the tools or experience required to measure the changes. This is not rocket science, but can be confusing for some. Especially so for those with little computer skills.

If you find that you may be one of these individuals, you need to understand your limitations.

Not wanting to sound like the back end of a mule, but you may be in over your head. Myself (and others) do not want to lead you astray, or confuse you more, causing issues with your bike.

There are some things that you may want to leave to others. If you do not understand how to perform valve adjustments, you have someone do this for you. If you need a rebuild, or want full race head work done, but have never done this in the past. Perhaps, you should consider taking your bike to someone that will do this for you, and has the tools to measure the effect of the changes.

A good set of tools does not mean that you are up to a complete engine tear down and reassembly.

Mapping is the same.

Just because TuneECU is free, and the cable is inexpensive, does not always mean that everyone is up to mapping the ECU. Diagnostics and swapping maps, sure. But maybe not altering the mapping.

Reading through the TuneECU Users Guide, and through a few of the threads on this forum will give you a basic understanding. But if you find yourself confused, you may want to leave some adjustments alone. It is not the fault of the ones on this forum (or others) that post information, that you are confused. This may simply not be your cup of tea.

Please take this to heart before you attempt loading a completely incompatible map into your ECU and lock it up completely. Or make changes to a map that leave your bike in a non-running condition. Or adjust the TPS, ISCV, and throttle body balance so far out of range that the engine will not start or idle. Do not blame others, and take some responsibility for your own actions and limitations. "Big Boy Rules" apply.

As my grandfather used to say, "just because you can, doesn't mean you should".

I hope this helps, and does not discourage others from learning or using tuning solutions like TuneECU, TuneEdit, or others.

-Wayne

I don't have an opinion... I have a dynamometer." - David Vizard.
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post #6 of 9 Old 07-28-11, 14:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Power-Tripp View Post
A copy/past from one of my posts on another forum:


As the result of a recent phone conversation, I find myself needing to point out a few things.

More than a few of us have tried to inform many on this site, as well as others, as to the meaning and reasoning of TuneECU, TuneEdit, and other stock ECU interface tuning solutions. And I am the last one to discourage others from learning and doing things on their own. We ALL start at the beginning.

But mapping is not for everyone. Some simply do not have the information and understanding of engine management. Or the tools or experience required to measure the changes. This is not rocket science, but can be confusing for some. Especially so for those with little computer skills.

If you find that you may be one of these individuals, you need to understand your limitations.

Not wanting to sound like the back end of a mule, but you may be in over your head. Myself (and others) do not want to lead you astray, or confuse you more, causing issues with your bike.

There are some things that you may want to leave to others. If you do not understand how to perform valve adjustments, you have someone do this for you. If you need a rebuild, or want full race head work done, but have never done this in the past. Perhaps, you should consider taking your bike to someone that will do this for you, and has the tools to measure the effect of the changes.

A good set of tools does not mean that you are up to a complete engine tear down and reassembly.

Mapping is the same.

Just because TuneECU is free, and the cable is inexpensive, does not always mean that everyone is up to mapping the ECU. Diagnostics and swapping maps, sure. But maybe not altering the mapping.

Reading through the TuneECU Users Guide, and through a few of the threads on this forum will give you a basic understanding. But if you find yourself confused, you may want to leave some adjustments alone. It is not the fault of the ones on this forum (or others) that post information, that you are confused. This may simply not be your cup of tea.

Please take this to heart before you attempt loading a completely incompatible map into your ECU and lock it up completely. Or make changes to a map that leave your bike in a non-running condition. Or adjust the TPS, ISCV, and throttle body balance so far out of range that the engine will not start or idle. Do not blame others, and take some responsibility for your own actions and limitations. "Big Boy Rules" apply.

As my grandfather used to say, "just because you can, doesn't mean you should".

I hope this helps, and does not discourage others from learning or using tuning solutions like TuneECU, TuneEdit, or others.

-Wayne

Well said, I agree completely.

It seems there are A LOT of people who THINK they know what the different tables mean, but very few know what the numbers actually represent, and how the different tables are used. Bad info gets spread when these people, with the best intent, parrot their incorrect or incomplete info around.

If you dont know what you are doing, and you are not ready to accept the consequences of your actions, leave well enough alone or contact someone who can help.

06 675 Track Bike
10 Tiger 1050 Everything Else Bike
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post #7 of 9 Old 09-07-20, 16:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travist140 View Post
...My first Questions are about The tune ECU program and the values in the fuel tables.
On the F table and L tables, What are the units the numbers in these two tables represent? I am assuming they are air flow in CFM or liters per minute?
From the author of TuneECU:

"In F & L tables the numbers are mg air x20 (for keihin) and the ECU calculate the amount of fuel to inject (microseconds in Screen Sensors)."
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post #8 of 9 Old 09-07-20, 22:37
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Sam, you might want to look at the date this was posted. :D
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post #9 of 9 Old 09-08-20, 17:26
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Originally Posted by Shamrock View Post
Sam, you might want to look at the date this was posted. :D

I did:-) I was searching for the same info recently and could not find it on the forum so I thought I would post it under this topic. Old admins used to not like users starting new thread needlessly. I guess I am still following those rules.
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