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post #1 of 12 Old 11-30-17, 22:38 Thread Starter
Wiggie
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Throttle input exiting corners

I am going into my 5th track day this weekend on a Daytona 675R. I am working on smoothness, cornering lines, and body position, hoping the speed will come. I am probably one of the faster riders in Novice class, but by no means the fastest.

In general I treat my equipment with care. However I am wondering if I may be a bit timid on the throttle exiting corners-- and that's where I generally get passed, albeit usually by liter bikes or liter plus Ducatis.

Because the Daytona is not exactly a torque monster do you guys with more track experience find you can open the throttle up pretty wide straight off the bat or are you still rolling it in gently (like I am doing)? Just asking, because the last thing I want is to low side the bike because I got too aggressive. So far have not felt a hint of wheel spin but I am not sure if this bike has enough torque for that.

Any words of wisdom?

2009 Daytona 675; 2008 Sprint ST 1050; 2007 Aprilia RSV1000R Factory
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post #2 of 12 Old 11-30-17, 23:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggie View Post
I am going into my 5th track day this weekend on a Daytona 675R. I am working on smoothness, cornering lines, and body position, hoping the speed will come. I am probably one of the faster riders in Novice class, but by no means the fastest.

In general I treat my equipment with care. However I am wondering if I may be a bit timid on the throttle exiting corners-- and that's where I generally get passed, albeit usually by liter bikes or liter plus Ducatis.

Because the Daytona is not exactly a torque monster do you guys with more track experience find you can open the throttle up pretty wide straight off the bat or are you still rolling it in gently (like I am doing)? Just asking, because the last thing I want is to low side the bike because I got too aggressive. So far have not felt a hint of wheel spin but I am not sure if this bike has enough torque for that.

Any words of wisdom?
If the rear tire isnt spinning you can twist it harder :). The 675 has a ton of torque compared to the other 600s, you should be hauling ass out of the corner as that is where this bike shines. Pretty much any 600 will spin the tire exiting, and honestly if you are fast as hell a 300 can spin as well. If im on it hard the rear is spinning at almost every exit. The key is to be smooth on application but just twist a little faster.

Pick your favorite corner and only that corner, every lap twist a little bit more and feel it out lap by lap just in that one corner. Once you get comfortable with that you can spread to another corner and continue. Takes awhile but you will get it.

On your rear tire do you have a band of wear about 1 - 2 inches off the shoulder of the tire?
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post #3 of 12 Old 12-01-17, 01:41
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I roll it on gently but quickly in relation to my lean angle. I start at apex or just a bit sooner depending on the corner. You should be able to get the jump on a liter bike on corner exit. They’ll put pull you once they get stood up but not before. From apex to the corner end is where smaller bikes can gain time on a liter bike so yeah you’re being timid. Timid is not bad though for a novice. Take your time and experiment gently.
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post #4 of 12 Old 12-01-17, 02:17
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Great advice above. Also depends on your tires. On slicks, I can give it full throttle almost at the apex of a lot of corners.

With street tires, I ride by the % rule - basically if you're at 90% lean, give it 10% throttle. At 50% lean, 50% throttle etc. Of course it gets subjective as you determine what 100% lean is. For you it might be 45*, for an expert it might be 60*.
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post #5 of 12 Old 12-01-17, 02:38
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I'm really curious where you got the idea of the 675 not having torque as that is literally THE selling point of the bike.

From what I see on beginners you usually set a low throttle angle to coast through the corner then rip it open once you're stood up. Especially in the beginner class where I assume guys aren't making hairy inside passes on you, I'm certain you're waiting ages to give it any balls.

the 675 has one of the flattest, broadest torque curves of any engine i've EVER worked on, so while that number on a dyno sheet may not be as high as some, the fact that you're roughly making the same torque value from 2000rpm all the way past 12000 makes these bikes ridiculously easy to modulate and use. corner exits are where you make your money with these.

06 Scorched Daytona 675, some bolt ons

03 Aprilia Tuono; mucho carbon, Ohlins, this winter: big throttle bodies/cams/2-2 exhaust.
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post #6 of 12 Old 12-01-17, 13:04 Thread Starter
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Thanks guys for the useful replies, and for the most part you are all right on. But by no means did I intend to denigrate the torque of the Daytona, because its torque curve is why I went with the Daytona instead of an R6. I simply meant that in relation to say a 1299 Panigale or Yamaha R1, it has less. I tested an R1 at a track day last week just to see what it was like and, well, wow! No way I am up to the level of using that bike the way it should.

Clearly I am not using all the torque I could on the Daytona, and can up the ante considerably with my throttle opening in the corners. A little bit at a time. BTW I am using Q3s.

If you never hear from me again I went too far. Just kidding.

2009 Daytona 675; 2008 Sprint ST 1050; 2007 Aprilia RSV1000R Factory
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post #7 of 12 Old 12-01-17, 13:13 Thread Starter
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Tottenham, I wonder if you would clarify your question: "On your rear tire do you have a band of wear about 1 - 2 inches off the shoulder of the tire?"

Do you mean where the wear stops--that is how far I am leaning?
Or do you mean a band of greater wear than on the rest of the tire?

If the latter, the answer is yes. That region of the tire has lots of "wrinkly rubber" on its way to coming off the tire.
If the former, I have a "chicken strip" extending about 5mm in from the shoulders of the rear tire.

2009 Daytona 675; 2008 Sprint ST 1050; 2007 Aprilia RSV1000R Factory
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post #8 of 12 Old 12-01-17, 15:41
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Giggity. I love track days!

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post #9 of 12 Old 12-01-17, 17:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggie View Post
Just asking, because the last thing I want is to low side the bike because I got too aggressive. So far have not felt a hint of wheel spin but I am not sure if this bike has enough torque for that.
That's not the main risk. Adding too much throttle too soon often results in the much less enjoyable high side.

Stay smooooth. Making small changes while staying smooth in application will likely give you indications when you're approaching the limit. If you're aggressive and snappy, you'll likely blow right by the warnings before you know what happened.
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post #10 of 12 Old 12-02-17, 18:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggie View Post
Tottenham, I wonder if you would clarify your question: "On your rear tire do you have a band of wear about 1 - 2 inches off the shoulder of the tire?"

Do you mean where the wear stops--that is how far I am leaning?
Or do you mean a band of greater wear than on the rest of the tire?

If the latter, the answer is yes. That region of the tire has lots of "wrinkly rubber" on its way to coming off the tire.
If the former, I have a "chicken strip" extending about 5mm in from the shoulders of the rear tire.
Why I asked is because riders that do not pick the throttle up early enough get increased wear about 1-2 inches off the shoulder. Its a super easy indicator that you need to be on the gas earlier and usually a little harder. Street tires are a little more forgiving then a slick for this because they heat up easier. Basically your goal is to reduce the time you are coasting, either braking or accelerating. It takes a ton of practice and the key is always smoothness, if you ever feel you arent smooth back out of it by a second and work back up to a pace you can ride smoothly and hit your marks.

You have any video of you riding? Its also very possible you are in the wrong gear and simply dont have the torque to pull out of the corner. If you find your self getting on the gas and having to add steering input to get the bike to run wide, you either are not getting on the gas hard enough, or you need some adjustments to the suspension. That brings me to my next point, if you plan on riding the track a lot get your suspension tuned ASAP. Get it looked at once per year if not even more, as you ride faster your settings need to follow you. The confidence a properly setup bike provides is astounding at any level of riding.

EDIT: Why are you using Q3s instead of the super corsas? Keep in mind that those tires run different circumferences. This means the bike will have a different ride height front and rear, as well as changing the overall geometry of the bike. If the bike has not been setup to run Q3s its even more important to go get your suspension setup.

Here is an example of what im talking about, these photos were taken at the same time. Heres my rear after a day I was struggling to get on the gas on left handers which caused the rear to cold tear and dig a hole into that side:


The right side is much cleaner and my throttle application is much better:
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