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Thread: Asking to "see radar" Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
02-23-13 22:06
MIKe30 Request a hearing, look professional, be humble, and ask for mercy. If you showed up to a hearing against me with the arrogant attitude as described above and demanding things, then I'd try my best to nail you to the full extent instead of being happy I got court time and letting you slide with a lesser penalty that saves your insurance rates. Not to mention the judge would pick up on your attitude, and be more inclined to side with me more-so than he normally is in the first place.

Anyway, good luck with it bud.

Edit: Just realized I suckered myself into resurrecting an old thread. That's what I get for searching and then getting distracted. First post fail.
05-12-11 19:44
redmosquito1 File a freedom of information act request for the officers training records, test records on the day he nabbed you and the calibration records on the radar unit. They have to give you that info, take the info and look for flaws like the unit hadn't been tested in a few days or is late on the calibration, or even the officers training is out of date. Raise these issues to the judge, in america your are innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, you just need to raise a doubt in the judges mind that something is a miss.

I fought and won a ticket in a similar fashion. I didn't file the FOIA request but brought the issues up in front of the magistrate and the officer couldn't produce his test record. It was tossed on the grounds that the radar wasn't calibrated correctly and since there was a possibility of inaccuracies they couldn't prove I was guilty. The officer wasn't happy but whatever.
05-07-11 06:18
ladidadi The "cosine" effect? Your gonna use algebra to get out of a ticket.
If a cop wants to give you a ticket, he can make it happen, simple. He can plant a dime bag on you too if he wants. Going to court with equations is like going on Judge Judy and thinking you wont look dumb.
just grin and bear it farkk
05-07-11 01:26
ryan00davis I cant comment on the laws in your state, but in california, you can fight a traffic ticket by mail (trial by written declaration), and if you lose, you can still request a court date (trail de novo).

note that I am not affiliated with this site in any way, but there is a lot of info here that helped me back when i got a ticket by laser gun for 63 in a 45 in my s2000: http://www.ticketassassin.com/fight.html

there is a section in there on radar spread, but it basically states what you already know, at your distance from the radar, you will be reading more than one lane, so if someone is speeding in the lane next to you, it can pick that up.

I am not sure if the trial by mail is an option in every state, but if it is, i highly recommend it. my case was dismissed for "no contest"

send me a PM if you want any more info.
05-06-11 21:57
Selkie A little bit more research and I think your angle compared to the cop is insignificant. If you were at a greater angle than you would have a higher probability that his radar was off. Maybe increase your angle, confuse the judge and cop, and hope for the best? lol

http://copradar.com/preview/chapt2/ch2d1.html
05-06-11 12:47
harcourt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selkie View Post
Just to clear things up - The cop was not using a radar gun. He had a radar unit mounted in his back window. Had he been using a gun he would be accurate with a proper tune of about +-1mph. The units mounted in the vehicle are accurate to a certain point. But if you are going to court to try and convince the judge that you were only speeding 10mph over the speed limit then you'll probably look like a dumbass.

(Q)What is the "Cosine Effect"?
(A)The Cosine Effect is a radar measured speed error due to the angle between the radar and target vehicle or object.

(Q)How does the Cosine Effect influence measured speed?
(A)The Cosine Effect causes a stationary radar to measure speeds low, the greater the angle the lower the measured speed. Moving mode radar may measure target speed HIGH in some situations.

(Q)Which angle is the Cosine Effect angle?
(A)The Cosine Effect angle (from the target vehicle's point of view) is the angle between the direction of the target vehicle and the radar. If the target vehicle is traveling directly toward (or away) from the radar, the Cosine Effect angle is 0 degrees (no error).

(Q)How large or small is the Cosine Effect error?
(A)The greater the angle, the greater the error. The error is a function of the cosine of the angle, thus Cosine Effect error. Measured speed = actual speed multiplied by the cosine of the angle.
So after using simple math calculations, the angle of 24 ft by 100 ft away came to 13.5 degrees. According to your explanation of the cosine effect error: 75 = x * cos13.5 therefore x (my actual speed) is closer to 77 mph? SO, you're saying the radar error is to my disadvantage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by adan View Post
you guys are misinterpreting what I mean by resolution. OP said there was a car NEXT to him. I am not saying anything about angle of incidence changing the doppler effect, nor am I saying to check his calibration, because there is no way it is out, I am saying with the beam spread, there isn't a way for him to definitively say that the reflected waves were not off of the car in the closer lane.
I agree with you. But I think Selkie is just explaining that there is also another added factor: the distance I was away from the car (perpendicularly) that changes things.
05-06-11 12:11
adan you guys are misinterpreting what I mean by resolution. OP said there was a car NEXT to him. I am not saying anything about angle of incidence changing the doppler effect, nor am I saying to check his calibration, because there is no way it is out, I am saying with the beam spread, there isn't a way for him to definitively say that the reflected waves were not off of the car in the closer lane.
05-06-11 10:38
Selkie Just to clear things up - The cop was not using a radar gun. He had a radar unit mounted in his back window. Had he been using a gun he would be accurate with a proper tune of about +-1mph. The units mounted in the vehicle are accurate to a certain point. But if you are going to court to try and convince the judge that you were only speeding 10mph over the speed limit then you'll probably look like a dumbass.

(Q)What is the "Cosine Effect"?
(A)The Cosine Effect is a radar measured speed error due to the angle between the radar and target vehicle or object.

(Q)How does the Cosine Effect influence measured speed?
(A)The Cosine Effect causes a stationary radar to measure speeds low, the greater the angle the lower the measured speed. Moving mode radar may measure target speed HIGH in some situations.

(Q)Which angle is the Cosine Effect angle?
(A)The Cosine Effect angle (from the target vehicle's point of view) is the angle between the direction of the target vehicle and the radar. If the target vehicle is traveling directly toward (or away) from the radar, the Cosine Effect angle is 0 degrees (no error).

(Q)How large or small is the Cosine Effect error?
(A)The greater the angle, the greater the error. The error is a function of the cosine of the angle, thus Cosine Effect error. Measured speed = actual speed multiplied by the cosine of the angle.
05-06-11 07:50
ladidadi Anyone who has operated these guns knows there are hundred different ways to get diff readings.
The most simple is pointing it at ground, then raising it to target you quickly (adding the speed of the gun).
You can point them at low flying planes to get licence losing readings.
But yeh, look at the gun, cuz I wouldn't put it above some cops adding a km or 2 to put you in the next demerit category.
05-06-11 00:12
harcourt
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorched 675 View Post
I know our rear radar is as acurate as the front facing radars. They are both the same radar, one forward facing one rearward facing. If you were directly behind him and only 100ft away the radar will pick up you, especially if your going faster and closer to the radar than the other car. I've pick up cars doing 167kph coming up from the rear about 1/2 km away. The radars are acurate and I know ours are tested and calibrated regularly. Just my two cents, I guess it doesn't hurt to try and fight it. Have to justify the cost of time off work, possible lawyer and see if it is worth persuing. Did he give you a break? I know if we give the party a break and they fight the ticket our crown will go for the full pop of the ticket.
I was not directly behind him. I was two lanes over. There were also other vehicles next to me. He gave me no break. Didn't reduce the speed at all or have the decency to be polite like I was.

Adan, the minimum width of a highway lane is 12 ft therefore I was at LEAST 24 ft to his right at 100 ft away. If you say the radar has a span of 20 ft at 100 ft... hm...
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