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Old 12-09-12, 11:52   #1
Rink675
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Default Which brand suspension

If you were to build another race bike (2009 R1) would you go with an Ohlins suspension or the traxxion dynamics Penske shocks and AK gas charged forks? The gas forks really have me interested, I know Ohlins has the popularity vote for being used on GP bikes and come stock on higher performance Race version bikes but if you were building the bike from stock which brand would you use and why?

I did some reading on gas charged forks and is it really that big of a difference vs regular inverted forks?
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Old 12-13-12, 01:11   #2
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Living in the US you can't go past Traxxion for quality, price and service.
I think it would take the talent of Stoner or Lorenzo to appreciate the difference between the top products available from Traxxion.
You can pay the extra for Ohlins or go with Penske and their Gas Cartidges, they sell both.
If you live in the UK you can't go past T3 Racing for price and service.
I live in Australia and I used Traxxion AK20 Cartriges and Penske shock on my Fz1 road bike and I used T3 Racing Nitron Valves and Nitron Race Pro shock for my Daytona Track bike.
The price from both these companies was very good, and the service was exceptional.
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Old 12-13-12, 09:10   #3
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Can we take a step back and actually talk about the physical difference between shocks? To this point, I have yet to see anyone mention or discuss what exactly makes an expensive shock so expensive. Is it materials? Is it range of operation? Adjustment options? At this point it just seems like a high-end Ohlins is some magical, and expensive thing we praise with mysterious internals that somehow work better than the less expensive options.

Does anyone actually know??
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Old 12-13-12, 10:31   #4
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Originally Posted by MacaveliMC View Post
Can we take a step back and actually talk about the physical difference between shocks? To this point, I have yet to see anyone mention or discuss what exactly makes an expensive shock so expensive. Is it materials? Is it range of operation? Adjustment options? At this point it just seems like a high-end Ohlins is some magical, and expensive thing we praise with mysterious internals that somehow work better than the less expensive options.

Does anyone actually know??

dude it's used on GP bikes, that means it's automatically expensive and nobody can out perform it lol jk....I am curious as well, great question!
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Old 12-13-12, 11:07   #5
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We have used both Traxxion/Penske and Ohlins on our race bikes over the last 12 months. That said all of our race bikes now have Ohlins units bolted in place. Traxxion makes a very nice unit and the guys over there are good people as are the guys at Penske. If you are an intermediate paced track day rider the Penske and Traxxion will fit your needs just fine (not terribly difficult to get in the sweet spot).

The thing you get with Ohlins is that their technology is constantly getting updated through their experience and work in GP, WSBK, and AMA. Brian's best time on Ohlins was a second a lap faster than his best time on Traxxion/Penske. His feedback was that he had better feel throughout the entire stroke of the front forks. The complaint he had with Traxxion is that at the bottom of the stroke the feeling was vague. (This was on our GSXR600 project bike that we built this last summer).

We have a 2009 R1 project bike as well and it currently has a TTX on the back and a set of gas cartridges from Ohlins in the front. The biggest complaint about the R1 has been that the frame flexes too much. Here is a picture of the support we had welded to the frame to get it stiffened up.


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Old 12-13-12, 11:26   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RidersDiscount View Post
We have used both Traxxion/Penske and Ohlins on our race bikes over the last 12 months. That said all of our race bikes now have Ohlins units bolted in place. Traxxion makes a very nice unit and the guys over there are good people as are the guys at Penske. If you are an intermediate paced track day rider the Penske and Traxxion will fit your needs just fine (not terribly difficult to get in the sweet spot).

The thing you get with Ohlins is that their technology is constantly getting updated through their experience and work in GP, WSBK, and AMA. Brian's best time on Ohlins was a second a lap faster than his best time on Traxxion/Penske. His feedback was that he had better feel throughout the entire stroke of the front forks. The complaint he had with Traxxion is that at the bottom of the stroke the feeling was vague. (This was on our GSXR600 project bike that we built this last summer).

We have a 2009 R1 project bike as well and it currently has a TTX on the back and a set of gas cartridges from Ohlins in the front. The biggest complaint about the R1 has been that the frame flexes too much. Here is a picture of the support we had welded to the frame to get it stiffened up.


Are you able to go into any more details? Like for instance, what gives the Ohlins better feel? Why do they deliver better lap times? I'm just trying to get an understanding of the actual physical differences between the brands. The theories behind how a shock and spring work (restricting fluid/gas flow in both directions) seems relatively simple, but obviously they are doing other things to make theirs work better, or feel better. Or something.
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Old 12-13-12, 12:07   #7
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I am not a suspension engineer so I can not give you the exact differences between the internals of the Ohlins and the Penske. What I can tell you is that myself and Brian have both ridden on Ohlins, Penske, Traxxion, and Race Tech in the past. It was easier to go fast on the Ohlins for both myself and Brian. This past summer we took a rider that exclusively ran Penske/Traxxion for the last few years and within 30 mins he was matching his best times on Ohlins suspension that he had not ridden on before. We took Taylor Knapp out to Grattan on our GSXR600 with Traxxion/Penske and after a full day riding he could not come close to the times he was running on the same bike with Ohlins.



Here are the differences that Ohlins announced with their new TTX MKII at the beginning of this year.

New piston ( aluminum) and new piston band ( homogeneous, not open).

· Steel tubes ( both inner and outer tube) “steel tube knowledge” is from WSBK racing

· Back valves are re-designed, with other spring rates to improve traction and tire feel / grip.

· Adjuster housings are visually different. Shim stack for rebound / comp valves are the same.
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Old 12-13-12, 12:27   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacaveliMC View Post
Can we take a step back and actually talk about the physical difference between shocks? To this point, I have yet to see anyone mention or discuss what exactly makes an expensive shock so expensive. Is it materials?...
Not saying Nitron is better or worse than any other, here is just an example of how complex an aftermarket shock can be:

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Old 12-13-12, 12:36   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RidersDiscount View Post
I am not a suspension engineer so I can not give you the exact differences between the internals of the Ohlins and the Penske. What I can tell you is that myself and Brian have both ridden on Ohlins, Penske, Traxxion, and Race Tech in the past. It was easier to go fast on the Ohlins for both myself and Brian. This past summer we took a rider that exclusively ran Penske/Traxxion for the last few years and within 30 mins he was matching his best times on Ohlins suspension that he had not ridden on before. We took Taylor Knapp out to Grattan on our GSXR600 with Traxxion/Penske and after a full day riding he could not come close to the times he was running on the same bike with Ohlins.



Here are the differences that Ohlins announced with their new TTX MKII at the beginning of this year.

New piston ( aluminum) and new piston band ( homogeneous, not open).

· Steel tubes ( both inner and outer tube) “steel tube knowledge” is from WSBK racing

· Back valves are re-designed, with other spring rates to improve traction and tire feel / grip.

· Adjuster housings are visually different. Shim stack for rebound / comp valves are the same.
Hmmm, interesting. Were you able to determine why you could go faster? Faster corner speeds, due to better feel/confidence? Did you even feel faster while riding, or did you just look at your times afterwards and say "wow, faster on the Ohlins."?
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Old 12-13-12, 12:40   #10
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Hmmm, interesting. Were you able to determine why you could go faster? Faster corner speeds, due to better feel/confidence? Did you even feel faster while riding, or did you just look at your times afterwards and say "wow, faster on the Ohlins."?

He said that the Ohlins was giving better feedback through the whole range of the suspension while the others were feeling very vague towards the bottom of the stroke.

The feel of the Ohlins is much more improved and profound is what I got out of what was said.
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