Triumph 675 Forums banner

Your first down at the track

8K views 61 replies 20 participants last post by  SunnyEveryday 
#1 ·
Please describe your first time going down at the track and what happened. Also please state your years of experience with that specific bike and, if applicable, how many time have you been to any track previously.

I personally have not ridden any track, yet, due to financial reasons (transporting bike, repair costs if I go down, etc.). But If money wasn't an issue, I'd be there every weekend if I can.

My friend and I are now seriously considering selling both our bikes and buying 2 track prepped bikes and a old pickup truck. So that may all change very soon.

We've already accepted the fact that we will go down. We just want to sort of gauge from all your responses (assuming enough) approximately when and how we will go down.
 
#2 ·
My first crash was kinda fun, actually. I had been doing track days on my 06 675 for a few months and this was something like my 5th or 6th track day. Chasing a slightly slower R6 in the B group, I tried passing him on the gas around the outside of a long sweeper and my rear slid out. I was surprised how easy the crash was - since I already had my knee down, I only really fell a few inches, slid off into the grass and brushed myself off. I broke a footpeg, clip-on and clutch lever so no big deal, I was back at the track a couple weeks later.

If you're a fairly experienced rider, your first crash will probably be similar to mine - finding the limits of your tires the hard way. The Pilot Powers I was on were cutting edge at the time, but they lost traction without much warning. More modern tires like Q3's, Rosso III's etc, tend to give a little more warning when you're nearing the limit, so if you keep a level head and don't chop the throttle, you can get away with a minor slide. A dirt bike is great training for this.

If you're a true novice and you panic easily, your first crash will likely be different. The most common crash is giving too much brake or too much throttle in the first lap of any session. If you don't use tire warmers, your tires are cold generally until one FULL lap into the session. Yes, even if you're at Thunderhill and it's 110 degrees out, your tires are still "cold" the first lap. Variable temp warmers are a great investment, even for street tires (run them on the low setting).

The second most common crash I've seen is from panic reactions. I've taken a lot of friends to the track and I've only seen 2 of them crash on their first day (they're now married to each other, lol). Typically it's towards the middle or end of the day as they're figuring out where the track goes, when they go into a corner a little too hot for their skill level and freak out. They mash the brakes while leaned over, or they stand the bike up, run off into the dirt, and don't know how to stop because they have no dirt experience. The key to all fast-paced riding, street or track, is to stay smooth. Take a school to learn proper technique and you'll know what to do when sh¡t goes pear-shaped and believe me, at some point it will.
 
#3 ·
Sheesh, first crash? I do not remember, but it was in my first season of racing for sure. My most memorable was the day I borrowed a friends's bike. Lowsided it in the bowl at Loudon, fixed it up, borrowed it again same day, and crashed in the bowl again! The second crash was nasty as I was pinched off track making an aggressive pass around the outside. Cartwheeled the bike and was forced to buy it.

I would say that it took 5-8 crashes before I could really even understand what my mistakes were. Even still, sometimes it is not possible to say definitively why some crashes happen. traction is mysterious at times.
 
#4 ·
We've already accepted the fact that we will go down.
I reject that as a given. I accept that probability is high of an "off" but it is not a given. I am at 16 track days and no offs (well, not off the bike anyway, I think I've had three off-the-tracks :)

If you want to race, and you have a target/deadline, then I accept that you will need to push limits more quickly and that will increase risk of an off. Also, the fact you want to race means that you need to understand where the limits are for you and your motorcycle, and that will almost certainly involve an off here and there.

But if you are simply a track-day enthusiast, there is no reason that (by your own hand) you must have an off. Ride within your limits, take your time, follow the group captains' and the trackday manager's advice and you'll have a great time with no offs.

The times I went off the track were my fault. And yes, I was following my own advice when they happened, just had three brain farts and lost concentration. But those were early on and I practiced discipline and improved.

The only times I really had a scare were caused by other people riding recklessly. Which is why I always skipped the session when they open it up for passing (when in Novice group). I figured by the end of that session Darwin's theory would have prevailed and the worst of the lot would be nursing injuries - or if no injuries then by the next session they were more comfortable with their bikes and able to best contain themselves.

All I am saying is that yes you should have a plan for an off (what if bike is messed up, what if you are messed up, etc.) but don't focus on it. Ride within your limits, have fun, and think of 'offs' as something that happens to other people :)
 
#5 ·
We've already accepted the fact that we will go down. We just want to sort of gauge from all your responses (assuming enough) approximately when and how we will go down.
I don't have a crash story but most of the expert level club racers I've met will tell you that there's absolutely no good reason to crash at a track day. I'm not an expert racer but I agree with them.
 
#6 ·
Ok, My professional advice as a trackday coach, organizer, racer and MSF instructor is, once decided go ahead an sell the nice streetbikes, get the track mules (SV650 or similar) and cheap truck. You will have a lot less stress about the whole topic and will likely learn faster.

As stated, you CAN go many days or seasons without falling off, but in my experience, if you are there to learn to go faster, it will happen eventually. There is no shame in it. Reckless abandon is no good, but the occasional mistake will happen. I still fall, and yes, even at trackdays although I'm not supposed to. It's part of the sport. No need to really obsess about it. But being prepared is the best thing.

However, you may want to try it out on the bike that you have before you commit in a drastic way.
 
#7 ·
The fact is that you don't necessarily need to go down. But if you ride on the competitive edge, and you have an insatiable desire to win, then yes, leather and asphalt will bond. I have done many track days and races over the years and my first crash was a minor low side and the result of a poor tire choice. It was back in the days of the AMA CCS (Championship Cup Series) on a Yamaha RZ 350 in Colorado racing with MRA. Everyone else was running Metzlers and I tried a set of Pirellis. It was a genuine, slo-mo surreal experience. I heard that familiar scraping sound before I even realized I was down. I looked up and saw the flagman and I remember the look in his eyes. Puzzled. No harm to body and just minor scraping on the RZ, I remounted, started it up and rejoined at the back of the pack and still finished 9th.

Years later, at Loudon it was a much different story. I was riding an RZ500 V4 with the expert class, not realizing that that WERA had three classes in the NE. The experts actually were experts. AMA Pros. I was not. I had done a lot of late night work on the RZ, and after removing the oil injection pump found I had run out of gasket material so I cut a piece of rubber sheet and fashioned a substitute. It held for all of practice and for exactly 13 laps. I came out of one of the bowls and as I opened the throttle on that wicked bike, the seeping oil hit the back tire and I was introduced the the dreaded high side. I remember locking eyes with a pro named John Battencourt, as he came around the inside of me and he had that same puzzled look as the flagman, just as the 500 spit me off. I was airborne and hit the asphalt fast and hard. Luckily no one hit me. But my day was over. I was bruised and battered and the RZ was done. My girlfriend helped me pack the van and we drove until the first motel with a vacancy where I licked my wounds and nursed my damaged pride.

There were many others, but those two stay with me. You should have asked about the first win. That's a much better story. ;)
 
#8 ·
I've been street riding year round for about 10 years now but only started doing track days on a mini supermoto over the summer and went to my first "big bike" track day in November. Let me tell ya, riding a small bike on a tight technical gokart track is an incredible learning tool!! You will be come a demon in the corners and a full size track feels like a fwy. If you want to get into track days without breaking the bank, it's the way to go. I probably have about $1,700 into the bike; and if you crash it, you typically just pick it up and continue riding.

Anyway, in November I went to Laguna Seca and rented a race prepped Ninja 300. I didn't think I would be very fast and ran in the novice group. To my surprise, my minibike skills REALLY paid off. I was passing liter bikes in the corners and even lapped a few people. I seriously surprised myself! Unfortunately it was also the first crash I've ever had since I made the EXACT mistake MGFChapin pointed out: too fast on the first lap of one of the later sessions (no tire warmers). There was zero warning, the front end just washed out; it felt like I hit an oil stain or sand but it was most likely just cold tires. I went down at about 70mph in turn 6; there was no real impact with the ground since I was already close to it; I just rolled a bunch of times once I hit the dirt. It very much felt like being stuck in a big ocean wave but with dirt instead of water LOL. Definitely a lot of force on neck and back but I walked away without any injuries; just very sore on the drive home that night and pretty much back to normal the next day.

If you've never done a track day, I'd say forget about speed, start slow and learn the lines, braking points and Apexes to hit. Once you get consistent on your lines, you can slowly start picking up the pace. If you hit your markers and are smooth and consistent, the risk of going down is limited (unless you're on cold tires apparently :grin2: ).
 
#9 ·
I was riding at Jennings GP in North FL. I had a couple of drops of rain hit my visor. I figured "this is psychological rain, just a little drizzle, the track isn't really that wet, I'll get off if the surface starts getting darker." Turn 13, suddenly I'm sliding along and so is the bike. We end up in the dirt next to the track. Once there, I think, "hmm, the asphalt looks a little darker--I guess it is getting wet!" I'm fine, the bike is mostly fine. (2014 Daytona). This was the beginning of my second track season. Probably 10ish track days in. Hard to say.
 
#10 ·
^^All great points by everyone ^^

I will second the motion on not selling your bike right away. You probably have a greater chance of wreaking your bike on the freeway with moderate traffic then in a beginner group at well run trackday. I know the pain of wanting to go to the track and not having a way or the means to get there. I now have a vehicle that can tow a trailer and I'm always willing to pick anyone up who needs a ride. We got a nice group of guys (most are forum members) up here that track together and try to move things around to make sure everyone has a ride. Just about everyone I've met over the years at the track are willing to help, so if you don't have something, there's a good chance someone will and they'll let you use it. No need to go out and spend a crap load of money on stuff just yet, that will come over time. You might have some local forums/bookface type of sites to reach out to the local guys going to the track or this site is a good one as well. On your first day, pay attention to the instructions that are given and don't be afraid to ask a controlled rider to follow you for a bit. Remember, everyone at the track is there to help and I personal get joy out of someone new coming to the track and seeing the progress they make and the excitement in there eyes. It brings me back to my first trackday and I cant believe how much I have improved, but I still got a ways to go. So, go do a couple trackdays on your current bike, then you'll be able to make an educated decision on your transportation and choice of track weapon. There are some other good threads on here about prepping you and your bike for trackdays.
Have fun out there.

EDIT: 3 years at the track without an off with one off track excursion but that was JD's fault.
 
#11 ·
Great posts, everyone. Thanks for detailed descriptions (makes it much easier to know what to lookout for). Must say I'm happy to read that none of you crashed on your first track day ever. I was sort of expecting the general consensus to be exactly what you all described -- cold tires or too much mustard on the brakes, or both. Both of which I experienced on the street on what was probably the lowest amount of tread I've ever ridden on. Luckily it was on my SV that I owned at the time and the riding posture, I think, allowed for a quick recovery that wouldn't have been possible on the Daytona.

To clarify some things/answer questions m:

I did consider using my (only bike) Daytona. It's actually my first bike since 3.5 years ago and I am very comfortable on it sort of familiar with some of it's warnings. However, it's too perfect and shiny so I would be much more worried, financially, about dropping it that I wouldn't be able to concentrate on the very subtle things that you need to practice to get better. But, I do like the idea of using it for the first time just to get a feel for the track day atmosphere -- that's a very good suggestion and I am now considering it.

Also, what I meant by selling our bikes and getting track bike is that the value of both our bikes (which we are too afraid to destroy to have any fun besides when saving gas on the commute [not really]) is enough to get us track ready weapons for 2-3k each AND a truck for 1-2k. All of these things will likely be pieces of shite, but the fun factor should be through the roof and that's really all that matters. We are becoming wiser and more willing to sacrifice our perfect street babies for track-mules, at least until we climb up the track ranks. So it's really that we're being forced to sell our bikes to make this work. It just doesn't make sense to us anymore to have nice shiny bikes that we can't do much with, given our financial situation and the yearning for speed and technical skill.
 
#13 ·
Perfect, and in that price range you can get a great SV set up for the track. Don't underestimate these bikes. You may never really need any more than that. I am 100 percent certain that you will go faster on the SV in the first 3-5 years on track than you ever could on the street triples. Money is best spent on track time. Bikes, leathers, helmets, etc. are consumables. In other words, you will use them till they are all used up and worth almost nothing. Getting in cheap helps lessen that hit.
 
#12 ·
Was my 5th trackday, last Sunday of October 2006 (or first November - don't really remember, but surely it was the same day Rossi lost the championship to Hayden) in a big 'n' proper racetrack and I thought I was really getting the hang of it. I was receiving much praise from more experienced fellow riders and the bike (SV650) felt solid, it didn't move or budge nomatter how much I seemed to "push"... so my brain decided to go haywire and I remember me saying "I'm a wimp. Obviously the limits in here are way beyond what I'm thinking they are." And so I committed hubris: I said to myself "OK wimp, I dare you: at the end of the long straight instead of hitting the brakes 170m from the turn (there were signs telling you how far you were) hit them at 100m and enter the turn still on the brakes. The bike surely can make it."

And that's EXACTLY what I did. I broke every rule there was. I even remember, as I was approaching the right turn at 115Mph I glanced left, to make sure the 100m sign was exactly next to me before I applied brakes... so as not to cheat!

The bike budged and protested under the most extreme braking I've ever done, the rear all over the place. Still, full of motorcycling bravado, I pressed on and just as I tipped it in, full brakes applied, it just washed-out under me in a totally abrupt way. I still remember the crashing and sliding noises, the bike sliding away from me and me waiting and waiting for the sliding to end. I must have slid at least 50 meters as I ended up in the extension of the main straight which was there for those who lost the brakes or as extra braking space for the dragsters.

End result: hurt pride, three broken bones in my wrists and very minor damage to the SV. And of course a good lesson: Don't be stupid in general, go one step at a time, and never plan your actions much in advance. Be smooth and go along with the feeling of the moment. I never had another spill since then (must have done about 15 trackdays with the SV in total) until I got the ST-R and I found out the hard way that there are new rules regarding paying attention to tyre warm-up and track conditions. The 675 in relation to the SV is no joke and it requires more respect and more thoughtfulness on the rider's part.
 
#19 ·
I was fortunate enough to pick up an SV for $1100 with 13000 miles last year when I was deciding what to do with my Daytona. The owner had bought it from AutoReturn (towing company) in San Francisco because the previous owner managed to rack up $7300 in tickets. He didn't even have an M1.

He was clueless about the bike -- and bikes in general. Just wanted to make a profit from flipping it. The type of guy that says "they're fast, man" and revs it to redline multiple times while parked in neutral to show you what he meant.

But I bought it and I loved that bike. I just loved the rawness -- carbs and lack of any technology. It had a yoshimura exhaust, and looked beat up from every angle, with spray painted polka dots on the tank (see pic). Rode it to work everyday (1 mile commute) just for the hell of it. I had plans to upgrade the suspension and everything. And then apartment life happened and I had to sell it because I couldn't have two bikes and a car.

And now, half a year later with serious plans of tracking, I regret selling it so much. Oh well, I'll likely find a prepped one as y'all mentioned. And I'm quite certain that I'd go with an SV as a track-mule unless I find a really good deal on a 600 that I can't pass up.

I'm curious, though. There's so much praise when it comes to the SV. For all of you who had or have the SV. How would you describe it in your own TWO WORDS given the context of a tracking, or starting to getting into tracking.
 

Attachments

#21 ·
I was fortunate enough to pick up an SV for $1100 with 13000 miles last year when I was deciding what to do with my Daytona. The owner had bought it from AutoReturn (towing company) in San Francisco because the previous owner managed to rack up $7300 in tickets. He didn't even have an M1.

He was clueless about the bike -- and bikes in general. Just wanted to make a profit from flipping it. The type of guy that says "they're fast, man" and revs it to redline multiple times while parked in neutral to show you what he meant.

But I bought it and I loved that bike. I just loved the rawness -- carbs and lack of any technology. It had a yoshimura exhaust, and looked beat up from every angle, with spray painted polka dots on the tank (see pic). Rode it to work everyday (1 mile commute) just for the hell of it. I had plans to upgrade the suspension and everything. And then apartment life happened and I had to sell it because I couldn't have two bikes and a car.

And now, half a year later with serious plans of tracking, I regret selling it so much. Oh well, I'll likely find a prepped one as y'all mentioned. And I'm quite certain that I'd go with an SV as a track-mule unless I find a really good deal on a 600 that I can't pass up.

I'm curious, though. There's so much praise when it comes to the SV. For all of you who had or have the SV. How would you describe it in your own TWO WORDS given the context of a tracking, or starting to getting into tracking.
A 600 is not a bike to learn to go fast on IMO. SV in two words... Race Bike.
 
#23 ·
First time

First off, when I first started was in 1996 on a ZX7. I bought it new after a friend totaled my 94 ZX7 on the Forth of July 1996. That date is easy to remember because I was in Mass General that night and watched the fire works on the parking lot roof. He was fine BTW just road rash.

Back to it now, so the shop I bought my bike from had a track day at NHIS. I got the bug and decided to do Penguin School mid summer 96. Late in the day being inexperienced, not understanding how to setup a suspension, tire pressure, body position and most of all throttle control/roll on. I was feeling like I was going to be the next GP 500 World Champion coming out of turn 2.
Turn 2 is cut inside of NASCAR 1 and 2. It is a left that you are flat going in there is the seam going up the embankment of NASCAR T2 to a short straight. I hit the bump turned the gas on too quick the rear was bouncing from rebound or lack there of and had a Highside.
I was fine but my bar end weight got the brunt and hit my frame and put a large dent in it. I missed one session with repairs and got back on track.
I crashed that bike many more times, luckily not getting seriously injured and raced with some of the biggest names in racing,WSB champions and Moto GP champion to name a few. I won a GNF Championship on that bike and had some of the greatest memories and friends from being on a track. There's so many things I would do differently starting out now (but wouldn't change a thing either)!
 
#24 · (Edited)
Your Daytona is a fantastic bike and perfect for the track. Any bike is that you are relaxed and confident on. On a track is 100% mental. If you're worried, nervous, scared, or thinking of anything but where to brake, turn, apex, and roll on your Much more likely to have problems.

If you're worried about wrecking your D675,buy a wrecked tank somewhere. Take all the bodywork off. Secure all the wiring and zip tie it behind anything and everything. Buy rearsets and if you have more to spend get clipons and arguably sliders.
If you do go down in theory your damage should be minimal.
I do this with my 2014 D675R. It helps performance "less weight" and is much easier to tune at the track. Paul E D knows me from Palmer too and love's to see me ride NAKED. Ya Paul I see you steering ��
 
#27 ·
Your Daytona is a fantastic bike and perfect for the track. Any bike is that you are relaxed and confident on. On a track is 100% mental. If you're worried, nervous, scared, or thinking of anything but where to brake, turn, apex, and roll on your Much more likely to have problems.

If you're worried about wrecking your D675,buy a wrecked tank somewhere. Take all the bodywork off. Secure all the wiring and zip tie it behind anything and everything. Buy rearsets and if you have more to spend get clipons and arguably sliders.
If you do go down in theory your damage should be minimal.
I do this with my 2014 D675R. It helps performance "less weight" and is much easier to tune at the track. Paul E D knows me from Palmer too and love's to see me ride NAKED. Ya Paul I see you steering ��
I actually have a wrecked tank and fairings that I can slap on for my first track day at least. I have sliders too. I'll need to buy engine covers, rear sets and replace my stock chain and sprockets as I'm at 16k miles. And I have a Pilot Road 4s in the rear and Powers in the front for my commute so I would have to change those as well or the rear at least. All of this would probably cost 1/3 of an SV that I can pick up (for some reason they're cheap and abundant around here). I don't think I want to spend all that dough on a bike I don't intend to track for the long haul.
 
#26 ·
What if the SV is bone stock. At that point, is it still easier or worse to learn on that a stock 600?

I'd assume the latter due to the suspension alone. But I do see that the riding posture in combination with the throttle forgiveness might still make it easier even with super bouncy suspension.

Have any of you tracked a bone stock SV?percentage wise how much more confidence would you say it inspires when fully prepped (suspension, brakes, etc.)?
 
#39 ·
Is that Erik's bike? A word of advice for anyone shopping for an SV - stick to as stock a motor as possible. A "cam swap" motor is fine, but anything with Wiseco pistons, Carrillo rods etc that puts down 85 hp isn't worth the upkeep if you're just doing track days. Racing is another story.
 
#47 ·
As you head into your first track days, recognize that even though you are the fastest MoFo out there, in the C group someone will pull out of their line on a straight and push you into the gravel pit if you are not totally aware ... and it will most likely happen after lunch when your brain is overwhelmed by the excellent lasagna (which the track day organizers provide for lunch).

The desire to FINALLY get around the squids who have been SO SLOW in the morning sessions (who run fast on the straights and park it on the corners) will get you into trouble. After lunch, the feeling of running free just overwhelms you and then - some schmuck pulls out of the racing line without any apparent reason and you have no where to go but off track ...

Keep yourself under control and you'll enjoy the whole experience much more.

x
 
#49 ·
Mine happened when a bike with more corner speed (not hard with me on the other one and an RC51 too) decided there was a gap inside on the exit when there wasn't. Before I was back on the gas, his front wheel hit my leg just above the knee and then I was sliding.

Teach me to get out of corners faster I guess.
 
#51 ·
Mine happened when a bike with more corner speed (not hard with me on the other one and an RC51 too) decided there was a gap inside on the exit when there wasn't. Before I was back on the gas, his front wheel hit my leg just above the knee and then I was sliding.

Teach me to get out of corners faster I guess.
RC51s are great bikes, theoretically.

I'm confused, though. Were you on the RC?? If so, what's it like tracking it? If not, what were you on?

And what number track day was is it for you?
 
#53 ·
Picked up the SV today - this thing is a freakin beast and insanely loud. Owner also threw in a box of extras/parts, full FMF exhaust and set of wheels. Couldn't be happier and can't wait to (hopefully not) drop it during my first track day...
 

Attachments

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top