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Better Brakes - Finally!

28K views 65 replies 30 participants last post by  Toothless675 
#1 ·
So, I've been fighting a squishy front brake feel since I bought my '08 (they stopped the bike fine). After trying every bleeding trick in the book (multiple times), I gave up and decided the problem must be in one of the components. My final setup is an Brembo RCS19 master, '06 R6 calipers (cheap on ebay), and custom Spiegler lines. This setup has given me a very firm lever - but not as firm as a full Brembo setup. An added benefit is that the monobloc R6 calipers & fixing are a little lighter than the Nissins. I swapped the master first & even though I liked the adjustability / features, it didn't really help too much. The R6 cals are what helped the most - maybe only b/c they're a better design & easier to bleed, but I was able to get them bled on the first try. (I'm 99% sure the stock calipers had some kind of "issue".) Swapping the calipers is not for the faint of heart - needed to fab spacers and specify the brake lines & fittings. If anyone's interested, I can provide the details / measurements of my setup.
 
#2 · (Edited)
Had someone ask, so here are the details:

Brembo 19 RCS - works fine with the stock clip-ons & stock reservoir. I have vortex clip-ons, so I had to fab a bracket for the reservoir. Used Tygon 2075 (kurveygirl.com) line to connect. Brembo uses a slightly smaller nipple, so you'll have to make sure it's clamped well (I use safety wire).

2006-2007 R6 calipers (ebay) - I'm not an expert on the years. I used '06, but it looks like 07's, and maybe 08-09, are the same. Maybe someone could compare part #'s on bike bandit. Make sure they're R6 and not R6s! You will need to remove the locating bushings (padded vise and vice grips) and find or fabricate shims. Shims are aluminum, 24mm O.D 10.5 mm I.D. and 2.0 to 3.0 mm thick (2.5 mm nominal). Do not go more than 3mm as this will move the pads outside the radius of the rotors. Also do not use steel washers!!! The shims must be aluminum to maintain he strength of the joint. (I believe there is somewhere online that sells shims for this sort of application.) You will also need to purchase 06-07 Yamaha R6 caliper bolts (Triumph bolts will not fit).

Spiegler brake lines (custom):Line 1
Length A in mm: 640
Fitting F1: 002
Fitting F2: 020
Line Color: Smoke
Fitting Color: Black

Line 2
Length A in mm: 690
Fitting F1: 022
Fitting F2: 020
Line Color: Smoke
Fitting Color: Black

You must ask for the the Brembo MC banjo bolt (10x1, I think - they know the size) if you go with the Brembo MC. I measured, then added a couple of cm to my measurements to be safe. Turns out they're a bit too long, so you would be safe reducing the length by about 2 cm (too long is OK, too short on the other hand...) At the MC, line #1 (Fitting 02) goes on top. Line 2 (Fitting 022) has a slight bend to help it get around the fork leg.

Flush the system well w/ cheap DOT 4 especially if you got your calipers off ebay (mine had some really nasty fluid left in them). I refilled with Motul RBF600. Brakes worked very well racing at Nashville w/ the MC set on 18 (20 feels like a rock). Only a very small touch of fade after about 8 to 10 laps of hauling the bike down from 162 mph on the front straight!

Whew - that's it, I think. Pics below:




 
#5 ·
very nice and +1 on sticky:thumbup: how much did you snag the r6 calipers for? what was the total cost to this setup?
 
#6 ·
Motion to sticky denied: I want to see more effort on things that make the bike go faster. Quit wasting your time on stuff that only make you slow, like brakes.

No go on, get busy thinking about fast stuff before I come over qnd lap you on my SV.:coolgleamA:
 
#9 ·
Motion to sticky denied: I want to see more effort on things that make the bike go faster. Quit wasting your time on stuff that only make you slow, like brakes.

No go on, get busy thinking about fast stuff before I come over qnd lap you on my SV.:coolgleamA:
Tell me about it! :cool: I'm pretty good at passing guys on the brakes... just gotta hold on to the position afterwards! I've done a lot to this bike - short of mods that will render it un-streetable. Most of the DIY mods I've done were to reduce weight (down to ~350 lbs in race trim & ~1 gallon of gas). I've got lots of ideas, but not enough time & money!
 
#8 · (Edited)
My cost was a bit higher:

Brembo 19RCS: $300 (Riders Discount - where did u find one for $165???)
Spiegler Lines: $130 (Direct from Spiegler)
Calipers: $50 (ebay)
Caliper bolts: $24 (local dealer)
Tygon: $8 (KurveyGirl)

I reused the C55 pads I already had, and fabricated all the brackets & shims from aluminum alloy sheet I already had laying around.

05'+ R6 sized brake lines works fine...

total price=

ebay calipers with new ferrodo CP211 carbon pads $80 shipped
Master = 165
Lines= 60
remote adjuster = 45
res. cup plus bracket = 18

still being shipped Galfer wave rotor....
BTW ofcounsel, motor out being built so needed these slow down thing-a-ma-jobs.... :)
 
#10 ·
^^^ Hehe!:biggrinjester: I was just messin!

As a bigger guy on a small bike, I've had to become very adept at out-braking as well. If you take a look at mine, you'll see I've got just about the same set up... Brembo RCS 19, custom brake lines and R6 rotors. And I've replaced the EBC rotors with some Brembos. The R6 calipers are not only lighter and stiffer than the GSX-R calipers, but their a bit smaller too. So they allow me to slip 320mm rotors on my 16.5" mag. wheel.


I've got my bike down to about 330lbs with enough fuel for a sprint race. Now, if I can only get my fat ass to lose some weight, I'd be set!
 
#11 ·
Sweet!!! (Not very Triumph-ish though... :whistle:) 330 lbs?!?! Wow! I'd have to attack my bike blindfolded with a reciprocating saw to get that low! I'm a small guy (130 lbs), so I'm not too worried about it. I just need to ride better!
 
#15 ·
I'm wondering how much of an effect running independent brake lines may have had on the squishiness. I read your other post which mention some suspicion with the crossover line.

I'd guess the R6 calipers had a bigger play in that, but still curious.

I'm running '07 Daytona calipers with C59 pads and a RCS19 (set to 20) and experiencing more squishiness than I had expected as well. As you said, the bike stops just fine, but the lever is still softer than desired. Bled the system well and zip tied the lever overnight which helped only for a brief moment before returning to "normal".
 
#17 ·
I'm wondering how much of an effect running independent brake lines may have had on the squishiness. I read your other post which mention some suspicion with the crossover line.

I'd guess the R6 calipers had a bigger play in that, but still curious.

I'm running '07 Daytona calipers with C59 pads and a RCS19 (set to 20) and experiencing more squishiness than I had expected as well. As you said, the bike stops just fine, but the lever is still softer than desired. Bled the system well and zip tied the lever overnight which helped only for a brief moment before returning to "normal".
The crossover doesn't make a difference. If you bleed it properly, it can be just as solid as an independent line system. It's possible you still have air in the system even after bleeding. Small bubbles can get stuck to the inside of the lines and won't come out unless you tap the line or inject brake fluid from the caliper up. You should also make sure there's no air getting in through your bleeders. Put some soapy water around them and see if bubbles form after a couple minutes or hours.
 
#20 ·
Umi, something like this will work, you'll just need to fit your own Tygon tubing if it's too big:
Amazon.com: Fjc, Inc. 2731 Syringe Oil Injector: Automotive

I remember you saying a while ago you were having trouble with squishy brakes. If the teflon tape hasn't permanently fixed the problem, it sounds to me like you've overtightened the bleeders at one point and the tape is deteriorating so it's not sealing anymore. It doesn't surprise me since brake fluid eats pretty much anything. No real fix for it except new calipers. You can know for sure by putting the calipers from your 10 on that bike and see if it stays tight. You could also try just switching MCs and see if that helps.

Don't worry about "cheap" DOT 4. Just get whatever kind you normally use; one whole bottle will be more than enough to flush everything.

Where is the line flattened?
 
#21 ·
Umi, something like this will work, you'll just need to fit your own Tygon tubing if it's too big:
Amazon.com: Fjc, Inc. 2731 Syringe Oil Injector: Automotive

I remember you saying a while ago you were having trouble with squishy brakes. If the teflon tape hasn't permanently fixed the problem, it sounds to me like you've overtightened the bleeders at one point and the tape is deteriorating so it's not sealing anymore. It doesn't surprise me since brake fluid eats pretty much anything. No real fix for it except new calipers. You can know for sure by putting the calipers from your 10 on that bike and see if it stays tight. You could also try just switching MCs and see if that helps.

Don't worry about "cheap" DOT 4. Just get whatever kind you normally use; one whole bottle will be more than enough to flush everything.

Where is the line flattened?
new calipers?! -_________________________-

I dont feel like it's possible to have effed the calipers, the MC yes, but not the calipers, they just started seeping after the MC started spitting out of the bleeder.

Yea that Syringe you sent I can't tell how large it is... so i was going to go with this one,

Any objections? Also, the line is flattened some where in the middle between the forks, I'll check on where and how long exactly tomorrow. They still work, no leaking, but who knows since the entire system is squishy.

Can I not use a 2010 Rotor + 2010 Caliper, with a 2007 wheel and forks? :*(((((
 
#22 ·
OK then just switch over the MC and see if that fixes it. Don't the calipers fit from 09+? If not, you could swap the entire front end over. Only takes about an hour and it's a lot better than buying new calipers without knowing for sure that's your problem.

That syringe looks fine.

If the line is slightly flattened but it's before the crossover, then you should be getting equal pressure to both calipers. Shouldn't be a problem.
 
#23 ·
I dont believe the 09+ calipers fit the 06-08 forks :-( Or else I'd do that switch in a heartbeat.

I dont have a 'cross over' they are direct lines to each caliper (speigler), my lowsided broke my stock lines at the MC, so i had to replace.
 
#27 ·
Just a quick question I am in the process of doing this modification. Are you removing the spacers on the Yamaha Calipers? if not the ID of the spacers you listed is incorrect. Please advise. I will post the spacer dimensions we needed to use if this is the case to help others.
 
#31 ·
09+ Calipers are different. They are the black Nissin Monoblocks.

You can use older years rotors with them without issue. I have a 2nd set of 08 wheels and rotors and have not had issue on my 09.

I highly recommend the Brembo RCS MC with the adjustment turned to the 'red' facing up. Also Markbuilt put in new pads for me about a month ago. Not sure what they are (will find out) but like them much better than the Carbon Lorriane Racing ones. More progressive feel, better for trail braking.


TS
 
#32 ·
Can I simply (yea right, simply) install R6 Calipers on my 09+ Daytona with some spacers without changing my lines or master cylinder?
If so can someone point me in the right direction to the source for the spacers.
(I can't mod a potato head, more less anything with wheels)
 
#33 ·
My buddy just recently did this, I had him email me the following info:

Zoran makes the spacers:

http://www.twfracing.com/

You also need the bolts to mount the calipers they must be the Yamaha bolts. You can find them here from Pro-Bolts

http://www.probolt-usa.com/stainles...aliper-mounting-bolt-kit-11.html#.ULTgYIXlXcg

I think that was the cheapest option. The brake lines are from Spiegler you can call them. Defiantly buy new banjo bolts for the calipers and the master cylinder. Don't take any chances reusing the existing parts. I bought all new personally.

http://www.spieglerusa.com/

That should be all you need to start that project.
 
#36 ·
If I buy R6 calipers, can I use other R6 front brake components with my Daytona, such as:
1. Reservoir
2. Master Cylinder
3. Brake Lines
4. Pads

I am shopping for R6 calipers and some of them are sold with some or all of the components above, so I am wondering if they will work attached to my Daytona, either as single pieces or all together.

Thanks!
 
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