I'm posting this only because its heading in this direction anyway, may as well get it over with.
I'm being completely honest when I say that I had zero clutch issues at any time in the three years I raced this bike. There was absolutely a Yoyodyne slipper in the bike. It shifted up and down just fine through my final lap in September before I put the bike away.
As far as the forks go, they always felt good to me. Never once did either of them leak. I dropped them off with a suspension guy each spring and picked them up a week later. Not a single word about internal damage was ever spoken.
Unaltered sale thread:
http://www.triumph675.net/forum/showthread.php?t=196345
jb.junior:
02-04-16, 11:59
Hey Victor Ward,
I hope that this year is starting out well for you.
I finally had a chance to get my mechanic on my bike and then take it for a spin on the track, and we found two pretty major problems.
1. One of the fork legs had bad scratches inside. It seemed that this was known about because the oil was way overfilled to prevent it from bottoming and tearing up the seals. My suspension guy found a used tube and changed it over for about $240.
2. The clutch was totally gone. The first lap I rode it was slipped on 4th, 5th, 6th. Completely unridable. I ordered a used on on eBay for $100 and it will be $90 labor to change it (at a discount from a friend); so $190 total.
I'm not sure if you knew about these issues, but someone must have. Perhaps it was the guy before you on the fork, but the clutch is very obviously done. I've had to spend $410 fixing stuff on a bike that I bought that had problems that specifically were not mentioned when I bought it. I obviously can't "make" you pay me back for any of this, but I think it would be the kind and appropriate thing to do for you to pay me back.
Please let me know what you can do. We can talk over the phone or via email if you want. I'd be happy to send you a copy of the invoices for both the clutch and the fork.
Regards,
jb.junior
Victor Ward:
02-04-16, 12:33
I really don't know what to say...
The last time I rode the bike was in September and I was able to shift up and down through the gears without trouble. I never had any trouble with it in the three seasons I owned the bike.
As far as the forks go, I brought them to a guy every spring for service and nothing was ever mentioned to me about scratched tubes. I've never had a leak either.
jb.junior:
02-04-16, 12:54
Ok, well, I guess it's possible that you didn't notice the fork. The clutch just seemed really obvious to me. It's possible that it is an electronic issue, but I'm pretty sure that it isn't. I haven't opened it up yet, but I've had clutches go out on me before, and this is exactly what it feels like. So you had no problems whatsoever pulling to redline? It's slipping all over the place on me. If you say no, then I'll believe you. But it's just odd that this happened right now. I guess I'll have a look at the clutch when I pull it...
Victor Ward:
02-04-16, 13:01
Man I'm really sorry but I'm 100% honest with you when I tell you that I did not have these problems.
I don't have the equipment or know-how when it comes to suspension service so for me it was just drop off and pick up. I was never aware of an issue.
I race at BIR. We have a full one mile drag strip that leads into the fastest turn in North America (aside from the banking at Daytona). That thing is topped out every lap.
I'm no electrical or clutch guru but It what you describe does not sound like an electrical problem.
jb.junior:
02-04-16, 13:19
Ok, well, I believe you then, so no hard feelings there. But nonetheless, the bike still had some pretty major issues that I had to pay for. Anyway you could get me back even just some of that as a gesture?
Victor Ward:
02-04-16, 14:08
I can honestly tell you that I had no troubles with the bike at all my last race weekend (or any weekend last year). I had no clutch issues and I was unaware that there was a problem with one of the forks. My suspension guy never said a thing.
I did my very best to disclose any possible issues I had with the bike and to my knowledge it was in great working order based on how it ran for me in September.
If I had a clutch issue like you describe I would have had it fixed at the track at the first hint of trouble. After all, it would cost me more to miss out on races than it would to have it fixed.
Had I not found such a great deal on a new bike I would be looking forward to riding the one you now have this coming spring.
All that said, I sold you a bike that I had known to be in good working order. Keep in mind that it is also a 2007 race bike that has been run hard for many years and crashed numerous times in its life. All of that was taken into consideration when I came up with the very fair price of $4500 for the bike, wheels, engine, etc. I do feel that even being stuck having to put in a few hundred dollars more, that you still got an ok deal. Just "ok", but you didn't get screwed.
I also cant help but feel that when you buy a used race machine that has been on track for many years that you do accept risk as a buyer in possibly having to make repairs. It sucks but that the reality in dealing with used machines.
I understand your frustration and I'm being honest with you. This is the nicest way I can think of to tell you "no", I wont be sending you any money.
jb.junior:
Yesterday, 14:41 (2-15-16)
I brought this to a professional mechanic, and he worked on it. The entire clutch was completely toast. Including the Yoyodyne housing pieces. I need to COMPLETELY replace that $800 piece. And another $100 for the clutch plates. I bought that bike, and you advertised it as, having a YOYODYNE SLIPPER CLUTCH. It did NOT have that clutch. Se the attached pics. There are grooves worn in both piece of the housing because you, or your mechanic, or whomever, did not install it correctly. Your rebuttle that "you got a lot of bike for the money, deal with it," is also completely unacceptable.
This bike did not work the second that I got it, and that is unacceptable. I've brought this issue to lots of people, including two mechanics who test rode it, and everyone is of the opinion that there is effectively zero percent chance that the previous user of this bike did not know that there was a problem with its clutch. You simply can't have wear in the plates like that and not notice that it's slipping. I'm going to post on this forum to see if people think the same.
I'm also going to post a specific thread about this transaction, stating each of my grievances here, and specifically name you as the seller. I'm going to start with the clutch, and also talk about the fork. Again, I'm going to post another thread in the tech forums, with photos of that very scratched fork leg, and the unusually high level of fork oil that was added by someone to cover up the fact that there was a bad scratch, and get people's opinion on that too. I have both the clutch and the fork documented with bills, receipts, and photographs.
If you want to find me a new slipper clutch, even a used one, I won't do that. But if not, I'm going to blow this thing up.
I'm being completely honest when I say that I had zero clutch issues at any time in the three years I raced this bike. There was absolutely a Yoyodyne slipper in the bike. It shifted up and down just fine through my final lap in September before I put the bike away.
As far as the forks go, they always felt good to me. Never once did either of them leak. I dropped them off with a suspension guy each spring and picked them up a week later. Not a single word about internal damage was ever spoken.
Unaltered sale thread:
http://www.triumph675.net/forum/showthread.php?t=196345
jb.junior:
02-04-16, 11:59
Hey Victor Ward,
I hope that this year is starting out well for you.
I finally had a chance to get my mechanic on my bike and then take it for a spin on the track, and we found two pretty major problems.
1. One of the fork legs had bad scratches inside. It seemed that this was known about because the oil was way overfilled to prevent it from bottoming and tearing up the seals. My suspension guy found a used tube and changed it over for about $240.
2. The clutch was totally gone. The first lap I rode it was slipped on 4th, 5th, 6th. Completely unridable. I ordered a used on on eBay for $100 and it will be $90 labor to change it (at a discount from a friend); so $190 total.
I'm not sure if you knew about these issues, but someone must have. Perhaps it was the guy before you on the fork, but the clutch is very obviously done. I've had to spend $410 fixing stuff on a bike that I bought that had problems that specifically were not mentioned when I bought it. I obviously can't "make" you pay me back for any of this, but I think it would be the kind and appropriate thing to do for you to pay me back.
Please let me know what you can do. We can talk over the phone or via email if you want. I'd be happy to send you a copy of the invoices for both the clutch and the fork.
Regards,
jb.junior
Victor Ward:
02-04-16, 12:33
I really don't know what to say...
The last time I rode the bike was in September and I was able to shift up and down through the gears without trouble. I never had any trouble with it in the three seasons I owned the bike.
As far as the forks go, I brought them to a guy every spring for service and nothing was ever mentioned to me about scratched tubes. I've never had a leak either.
jb.junior:
02-04-16, 12:54
Ok, well, I guess it's possible that you didn't notice the fork. The clutch just seemed really obvious to me. It's possible that it is an electronic issue, but I'm pretty sure that it isn't. I haven't opened it up yet, but I've had clutches go out on me before, and this is exactly what it feels like. So you had no problems whatsoever pulling to redline? It's slipping all over the place on me. If you say no, then I'll believe you. But it's just odd that this happened right now. I guess I'll have a look at the clutch when I pull it...
Victor Ward:
02-04-16, 13:01
Man I'm really sorry but I'm 100% honest with you when I tell you that I did not have these problems.
I don't have the equipment or know-how when it comes to suspension service so for me it was just drop off and pick up. I was never aware of an issue.
I race at BIR. We have a full one mile drag strip that leads into the fastest turn in North America (aside from the banking at Daytona). That thing is topped out every lap.
I'm no electrical or clutch guru but It what you describe does not sound like an electrical problem.
jb.junior:
02-04-16, 13:19
Ok, well, I believe you then, so no hard feelings there. But nonetheless, the bike still had some pretty major issues that I had to pay for. Anyway you could get me back even just some of that as a gesture?
Victor Ward:
02-04-16, 14:08
I can honestly tell you that I had no troubles with the bike at all my last race weekend (or any weekend last year). I had no clutch issues and I was unaware that there was a problem with one of the forks. My suspension guy never said a thing.
I did my very best to disclose any possible issues I had with the bike and to my knowledge it was in great working order based on how it ran for me in September.
If I had a clutch issue like you describe I would have had it fixed at the track at the first hint of trouble. After all, it would cost me more to miss out on races than it would to have it fixed.
Had I not found such a great deal on a new bike I would be looking forward to riding the one you now have this coming spring.
All that said, I sold you a bike that I had known to be in good working order. Keep in mind that it is also a 2007 race bike that has been run hard for many years and crashed numerous times in its life. All of that was taken into consideration when I came up with the very fair price of $4500 for the bike, wheels, engine, etc. I do feel that even being stuck having to put in a few hundred dollars more, that you still got an ok deal. Just "ok", but you didn't get screwed.
I also cant help but feel that when you buy a used race machine that has been on track for many years that you do accept risk as a buyer in possibly having to make repairs. It sucks but that the reality in dealing with used machines.
I understand your frustration and I'm being honest with you. This is the nicest way I can think of to tell you "no", I wont be sending you any money.
jb.junior:
Yesterday, 14:41 (2-15-16)
I brought this to a professional mechanic, and he worked on it. The entire clutch was completely toast. Including the Yoyodyne housing pieces. I need to COMPLETELY replace that $800 piece. And another $100 for the clutch plates. I bought that bike, and you advertised it as, having a YOYODYNE SLIPPER CLUTCH. It did NOT have that clutch. Se the attached pics. There are grooves worn in both piece of the housing because you, or your mechanic, or whomever, did not install it correctly. Your rebuttle that "you got a lot of bike for the money, deal with it," is also completely unacceptable.
This bike did not work the second that I got it, and that is unacceptable. I've brought this issue to lots of people, including two mechanics who test rode it, and everyone is of the opinion that there is effectively zero percent chance that the previous user of this bike did not know that there was a problem with its clutch. You simply can't have wear in the plates like that and not notice that it's slipping. I'm going to post on this forum to see if people think the same.
I'm also going to post a specific thread about this transaction, stating each of my grievances here, and specifically name you as the seller. I'm going to start with the clutch, and also talk about the fork. Again, I'm going to post another thread in the tech forums, with photos of that very scratched fork leg, and the unusually high level of fork oil that was added by someone to cover up the fact that there was a bad scratch, and get people's opinion on that too. I have both the clutch and the fork documented with bills, receipts, and photographs.
If you want to find me a new slipper clutch, even a used one, I won't do that. But if not, I'm going to blow this thing up.