Triumph 675 Forums banner

13+ ss build. tuning, suspension etc

13K views 43 replies 9 participants last post by  DimSTriple 
#1 ·
After hours of searching for info (possibly in the wrong place) I'm at a loss. Building my race 675r 2013.

What are you guys doing to tune them? Can you tune them via a re-flash?

Power commander better option, secondary fuel module needed?
(On my '13 636 it was just pc5 and ignition module)

Midwest CCS hasn't seen many that I'm aware of .. at least on the expert grid. So I'm limited to asking questions, there is many intelligent people on this forum!

From what I've gathered on the 13+ (fast expert pace)

-Attack Triples (in which I need to learn more about the bikes geometry) although we have autobahn first up and it seems that a very flickable bike maybe ideal.. the speeds are not that great here..
-Rear suspension link and plates(more chassis geometry)
-The APE camshaft gears for the build(more learning)
-kit/race valves (or at least springs??) best source
-Full exhaust-- I'm sure they all are similar hp output wise .. i will end up building one more then likely (fabricator by trade)
- Block off plates (have to look more into this)
ahh learning a new chassis

Is the race ecu/harness worth the coin? like legitimately is it worth it? Seems you need special software to tune it? Rasing the rev limiter worth it? are these making peak power up top? From what I know about engines, more rpms make more hp *for the most part.

I have no gauge cluster, I was thinking about setting up a different dash but in the end a used cluster will be cheaper...

I have no ignition either so I will be forum searching on a DIY keyless setup hopefully.

I'll do a search on service manual , race manual
 
See less See more
#3 ·
Kinda have the easy options and then the hard ones $ wise....

Easy: Add a Power Commander V & Some type of exup simulator..

Harder: Kit harness, Kit ecu, Power Commander V & ignition module.
 
#6 ·
I'm building one for track use too. The 13+ ECU's can't be reflashed, even with the race ECU, so you'll need a Power Commander or Bazzazz. If you do get a race ECU, the rev limit defaults to 15.5k RPM, so you have to get the kit parts to cope with a higher limit, or an ignition module for the PC V to lower the limit back to stock.

A kit ECU & harness are on my short list simply because I want to ditch the ABS system. I find it ridiculous that Triumph makes you manually turn the ABS off every time you cycle the ignition.

Your list of parts would make a very competitive bike. The Attack triples aren't so much to slow down the steering but to keep the front planted. I rode a stock bike and one with Attacks back-to-back and the difference is night and day. No matter how much we moved the forks around on the stock bike, the front felt like it was pushing in sweepers. With the Attacks, you turn the bike and it sticks on rails. It's not a cheap mod but it's on my "must have" list.

My local dealer says Triumph doesn't scan their manuals in PDF like most other manufacturers. They gave me digital copies of some other manuals, so I know they're not bullsh¡tting me. I found a scanned copy on eBay.
 
#8 ·
Bolt on mods-full exhaust, filter
Engine mods-Degreed cams, springs, milled head and thinner head gasket
Suspension mods-revalve/respring forks, attacks
Tuning mods-PcV, Ign mod and a dyno with a competent tuner

This should get you 90% to where you want to be. Bolt ons and suspension will get you close, then do the SS build on the engine.

Good luck!
 
#11 ·
Bam! Down and dirty .. I like it. I have been reading over the kit manual and it says you have to have the race cams to have the race valve springs?

Thought I read something on here that the valve kit was a must for racing being they live up on the higher end?
 
#12 ·
Unless it's different for 3rd gen, I know on 2nd-gen the kit valves and cams are not required to run the kit valve springs. They are all designed to work together, so obviously I wouldn't run the cams without the valves and valve springs. But if all you wanted to run was the valve springs to stay SS (my plan) then dropping the kit springs in there will be an upgrade over the stock springs.
 
#15 ·
Springs are a must if you're racing and don't want to drop a valve. I wouldn't worry about running the cams and/or valves.

The stock ohlins stuff is good, but if you're looking for a properly prepared expert level race bike valving is a must. Most of the stock stuff has differing components to cut down on costs. It still works and works well at that, but if you're competing in the upper level of your region, things like valving and triple clamps will help tremendously.

All just pieces to the large puzzle of racing.
 
#19 ·
So what do you suggest for internals? I have never had Ohlins anything before. I thought I read somewhere from Riders Discount (TJ?) the the factory stuff was pretty good and that Zemke actually went faster on the forks (assuming they sprung it for him)?

I can go either way, I have no forks at all.. I've also heard to stay away from the 30nix kit?

I'd rather not spend $1500 on a factory Ohlins/675r front end to dump another $1500(or whatever the internals cost)

Ps: Thanks for clearing up the valve springs question! Thanks guys
 
#18 ·
Sounds like you have a nice setup. The gas works well, but you won't notice a difference until the last 5-10mm of stroke vs non gas carts.

I'd stick with what you have, I'm sure it works stellar!

The only reason I initially went to gas is that I was able to basically steal two full sets of forks with Traxxion AK gas carts and a plethora of springs from brammo. When I say steal, I mean like $400 a set!
 
#21 ·
I would just keep whatever forks you currently have. Talk to a local suspension guy and potentially move to a performance valve kit and springs.

Thermosman suspension in Georgia is probably one of the best guys to send your stuff to IMHO.

Depending on your level of riding, your current setup may suffice, but as you get faster, suspension become more of a neccessity.

Iirc, Zemke went quicker on the ohlins than the K-Tech, but I could be wrong.
 
#23 · (Edited)
I would just keep whatever forks you currently have. Talk to a local suspension guy and potentially move to a performance valve kit and springs.

Thermosman suspension in Georgia is probably one of the best guys to send your stuff to IMHO.

Depending on your level of riding, your current setup may suffice, but as you get faster, suspension become more of a neccessity.

Iirc, Zemke went quicker on the ohlins than the K-Tech, but I could be wrong.
I don't have forks! lol this is a ground up build. I got a good deal on what I have so, its good in one way and of course bad in others.

The reason why I ask is because on Ohlins website they list nothing for '13+ 675..

My pace as an expert is on par with the top 5. But my lack of $$ is what separates me most of the time, hard to compete on tires with 2-3 sprints and pump fuel most of the time..

I think what I will do is buy a set of factory Triumph Ohlins and go from there... hopefully they are as good or better then stock showa forks with the race tech gold valve kit that I had in my '13 636.

I wanted to stay local with my suspension ppl TSE, but from what I've read Thermosman seems to be the guy to go with.. downfall is not local
 
#24 ·
TSE are good people. You probably know Carl Soltisz....he and I have raced each other several times....both as amateur and expert. Try and find a used set of 675r Ohlins and go from there. I think they'll do you good!
 
#26 ·
Thanks! yes Carl and I race together as well. Typically he is a couple 10'ths quicker then I am, he has not run over me a few times crashing out ahead of him, he's a good rider..lol so you have an idea of our pace.

I actually just finally paid for an entire front end (15 mins ago) that was actually on my bike. I missed the front end by a couple hours and bought what he had left. I got the Ohlins forks,brembo brakes, triples and front axle shipped for $750.. and I just got off the phone with thermosman. after he gets it to spec and refresh about another 5-600. He said over the years they have made strides with the 30mm kit and that is pretty good. So fingers crossed !

I appreciate your input!
 
#27 · (Edited)
Ohlins Nix30 cartridges for the 675 forks -- FGK209 -- are literally exactly the same spec as the 675R Ohlins forks -- FL9060. I'm looking at the Ohlins spec sheets right now, exact same internals. Same Rebound and Compression circuits -- C4 and R3. Just some info for anyone that may think the aftermarket stuff is better or worse than the OEM stuff -- they're on the same level.
 
#28 ·
Ohlins Nix30 cartridges for the 675 forks -- FGK209 -- are literally exactly the same spec as the 675R Ohlins forks -- FL9060. I'm looking at the Ohlins spec sheets right now, exact same internals. Same Rebound and Compression circuits -- C3 and R4. Just some info for anyone that may think the aftermarket stuff is better or worse than the OEM stuff -- they're on the same level.
That is word for word what I heard a couple hours ago.. :cool2:
 
#29 ·
Forgive me if this is easy understood, but for me i'm a little confused on the race ecu / stock ecu tuning.

Race ecu:

-Pre programmed raised rev limiter
-Pre programmed to work with with the other kit parts (exhaust, cams etc)
-Only way to tune the ECU is to get the TRACS software?

-- If you don't have the TRACS software you have to get a PowerCommander or alike to tune the air/fuel?
-Ignition module controls ....? Lower the rev limiter? and launch control
Factory quick shifter still works.. fine?


Stock ecu:
Stock rev limiter
Needs a Pc5 (or alike) to tune the air/fuel?
Ignition module does what at this point? Launch control??
(I thought the ignition module was for the quick shifter on my 636? )
Factory quick shifter still works.. fine?

I'm trying to figure out what exactly to do here. I guess the only downfall I see to purchasing the Race Ecu is having to purchase TRACS as well?

Trying to educate myself before I place my order!
 
#30 ·
The race ECU should come with software, but I've never used it on a 3rd gen so I don't know how much adjustability there is. I'm guessing very little, since the race ECU is still locked. The PCV would tune air/fuel and the ignition module would change the rev limiter and also timing, since you don't want the race ECU's timing settings if you're not doing kit cams.

Yes, stock ECU needs PCV or similar for air/fuel. An ignition module isn't necessary if you're keeping the rev limit & timing stock.

The QS can go directly to the PCV, or you can use the OE QS plug, which will still work with either ECU. My tuner recommends using the OE plug since it cuts fuel and spark. The PCV only cuts one of them, I forget which.

The main benefit to the race ECU is ditching the ABS pump & hardware. If you're OK either manually turning it off every time you cycle the ignition, or you'll leave the pump and cap off the lines, a stock ECU should be fine.
 
#31 ·
The race ECU should come with software, but I've never used it on a 3rd gen so I don't know how much adjustability there is. I'm guessing very little, since the race ECU is still locked. The PCV would tune air/fuel and the ignition module would change the rev limiter and also timing, since you don't want the race ECU's timing settings if you're not doing kit cams.

Yes, stock ECU needs PCV or similar for air/fuel. An ignition module isn't necessary if you're keeping the rev limit & timing stock.

The QS can go directly to the PCV, or you can use the OE QS plug, which will still work with either ECU. My tuner recommends using the OE plug since it cuts fuel and spark. The PCV only cuts one of them, I forget which.
Thanks for the response. I will go with an oem quick shifter.

Triumph just email me back and they do not use TRACS anymore and tune through PowerCommander.

As longs as there is no messing with TRACS I will go with Race Harness and ECU. Thanks !
 
#37 ·
Wow, their customer service is awesome. Just got off the phone with a really knowledgeable guy.

The ignition module out of the box allows you to raise the rev limit by 500 RPM. If you want to go higher than that, you send them a rev extend form specifying the amount by which you need it raised, and make sure you include a list of parts you've installed to compensate for the higher limit and that it's a race-only bike etc etc. They'll email you back a code that you enter to get it changed.

In my case, I plan on getting the kit ECU & harness but no top-end parts except maybe springs, so I need to lower the limit by 1100 RPM back to stock, which means I'll also need to send in a request form.
 
#44 ·
Regarding engine tunning on 2013 Daytona
The bike has it's secrets, possitives and flows when tunning which many people aren't willing to share them in public. My suggestion would be if you plan to tune/order some kit parts (engine & ecu) not to do that based of what you will read over here.
Ask a team that has worked with the bike to help you on that OR even better ask them to build your engine!
Tunners have seen some really big number on the 2013+ daytona's but as I said that always comes at a cost. Building a supersport BUT reliable engine is not just a matter of ordering parts and putting them on the engine.

Cheers :)
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top