Removing starter motor for track?

[Ruby Racing]

Originally Posted by Noodles

You have the process explained wrong... The parts don't get heated up. The cryo process involves slowly cooling the parts to cryo temps from room temperature to cryo temps (-200C), then soaking them in that extreme cold temp for a set amount of time, then bringing the parts back to room temp at a conrolled rate.

Nuno!

I am no expert on this process, just something I was aware of, I copied the explanation from the website of a company that carries out this kind of work. However I have looked at other websites of companies which do this work and they all say the metal is both heated and cooled about 4 times. So I guess they are all wrong.

This from another company:

As you can guess from the use of the word Cryo - it involves the cooling and heating of the engine block to temper the metal changing its structure.

First the engine is slowly cooled in liquid nitrogen. The liquid nitrogen is added to the sealed tank in very precise measures, too fast and you risk causing stress fractures in the metal. After you have reached around -350F the engine temperature is slowly raised up again to over 300 F over a 12 hour period or so. This process is repeated 3 or 4 times over the course of a week.




Anyway, in the context of this topic it doesn't really matter how it's carried out, rather it's an example of one of the things that can add to the expense of tuning a motor in order to be competitive.

[Daytona.Scott]

Originally Posted by Ruby Racing

I am no expert on this process, just something I was aware of, I copied the explanation from the website of a company that carries out this kind of work. However I have looked at other websites of companies which do this work and they all say the metal is both heated and cooled about 4 times. So I guess they are all wrong.

This from another company:

As you can guess from the use of the word Cryo - it involves the cooling and heating of the engine block to temper the metal changing its structure.

First the engine is slowly cooled in liquid nitrogen. The liquid nitrogen is added to the sealed tank in very precise measures, too fast and you risk causing stress fractures in the metal. After you have reached around -350F the engine temperature is slowly raised up again to over 300 F over a 12 hour period or so. This process is repeated 3 or 4 times over the course of a week.




Anyway, in the context of this topic it doesn't really matter how it's carried out, rather it's an example of one of the things that can add to the expense of tuning a motor in order to be competitive.

That shit is crazy

[antirich]

"Anyway, in the context of this topic it doesn't really matter how it's carried out, rather it's an example of one of the things that can add to the expense of tuning a motor in order to be competitive."


Well, here's a good guide as far as performance. I know of at least two racers who have dipped in the 1:29s with basically stock 675 motors (NJMP Thunderbolt). Unless you're getting close to those times, you really don't 'need' any more engine work. Suspension, set up and experience will carry you much further around that track.

Remember, the DSB Triumphs are doing around 1:23-26, and those are basically SuperStock motors. Although, very well built stock motors ;-)


And this is coming from someone who has done WAY too much work to their bike, and is still far from the 1:29s

[Daytona.Scott]

Originally Posted by antirich

"Anyway, in the context of this topic it doesn't really matter how it's carried out, rather it's an example of one of the things that can add to the expense of tuning a motor in order to be competitive."


Well, here's a good guide as far as performance. I know of at least two racers who have dipped in the 1:29s with basically stock 675 motors (NJMP Thunderbolt). Unless you're getting close to those times, you really don't 'need' any more engine work. Suspension, set up and experience will carry you much further around that track.

Remember, the DSB Triumphs are doing around 1:23-26, and those are basically SuperStock motors. Although, very well built stock motors ;-)


And this is coming from someone who has done WAY too much work to their bike, and is still far from the 1:29s

you are so correct sir. I mean nothing can really triumph (pun-intended) seat time...

I only started to ride this year, track only... Got upto mid-upper-pack B/C in Penguin (NJMP) by the end of the season but was getting frustrated by the all the damn traffic jam on the trackdays...

Every time when I want to push myself, I find myself cluster-fucked by other riders... I have no problem with other better riders blazing pass me but I just don't like stuffing slower riders inside...

Do you have any recommendations for trackdays? what organizations/ tracks tend to be less crowded?

[antirich]

Originally Posted by Daytona.Scott

.

Do you have any recommendations for trackdays? what organizations/ tracks tend to be less crowded?

Well, I've never ridden with Penguin's track days, but some of my fellow racers have (at NJMP). Let's just say it's a more mature bunch on average, at least for the school groups.

Absolute and NESBA's race groups will be much faster on average, just don't expect anyone to pass you nicely out there. For those not used to it, getting passed at speed, within a foot, can be a scary experience. This is probably the biggest difference between the top group and others, for you need to be able to hold you line and not getting spooked. Remember, the only passing rule is don't make contact. Although general riding like a dick is not welcomed.

Getting a close pass at speed happens to everyone. We often get AMA guys coming out for practice, and they don't F' around. It's very humbling to say the least.

[Daytona.Scott]

Originally Posted by antirich

Well, I've never ridden with Penguin's track days, but some of my fellow racers have (at NJMP). Let's just say it's a more mature bunch on average, at least for the school groups.

Absolute and NESBA's race groups will be much faster on average, just don't expect anyone to pass you nicely out there. For those not used to it, getting passed at speed, within a foot, can be a scary experience. This is probably the biggest difference between the top group and others, for you need to be able to hold you line and not getting spooked. Remember, the only passing rule is don't make contact. Although general riding like a dick is not welcomed.

Getting a close pass at speed happens to everyone. We often get AMA guys coming out for practice, and they don't F' around. It's very humbling to say the least.

When I rode with Pengiun there was a special event so all these people were there too...

Roger Lee Hayden - AMA 600 Supersport champion and current National Guard Jordan Suzuki AMA factory Superbike pilot
Jeff Wood - AMA front runner & FUSA/ASRA/CCS national champion
Eric Stump - AMA Superport front runner & podium finisher at NJMP
Eric Wood - AMA Race winner and FUSA/CCS national champion
Corey Alexander - AMA Supersport front runner & race winner
Mike Himmlesbach - AMA front runner & suspension expert
Rich Alexander - AMA 750 Supersport champion

I mean, I don't get spooked out by being passed at all, knowing that I am not the best rider out there. Also, I don't have anything against overtaking on the outside. But personally, I just don't overtake someone inside by late braking especially on the track day (I think it's a just dick move and can be dangerous especially with, let's say, less aware riders) but again, I am not spooked by being taken over as it is just natural learning process.

Only reason I am obsessed with getting all the mods I don't need is that Daytona being my first proper sportbike after kitted cbr250, I had a chance to ride old Ducati supersport... and man I loved that Torque bahahaha...

And really, I am not sure what the sentiment is out there but there are always people on literbike who are just facking slow around the corner...

You know the one you pass throughout the corner on the outside, just to see them sprint to the next corner with all that power, and slow the way the fuck down and just block your passage again...

That was really something that was fucking me up as learning opportunity...
Personally I love passing people on the big sweeping right-hander then left-hander before the bridge on Thunderbolt and the bowl on Lightning and give a giant fuck you to those assholes on literbikes...

[antirich]

Originally Posted by Daytona.Scott

When I rode with Pengiun there was a special event so all these people were there too...

Roger Lee Hayden - AMA 600 Supersport champion and current National Guard Jordan Suzuki AMA factory Superbike pilot
Jeff Wood - AMA front runner & FUSA/ASRA/CCS national champion
Eric Stump - AMA Superport front runner & podium finisher at NJMP
Eric Wood - AMA Race winner and FUSA/CCS national champion
Corey Alexander - AMA Supersport front runner & race winner
Mike Himmlesbach - AMA front runner & suspension expert
Rich Alexander - AMA 750 Supersport champion

Yea, i was there, riding in the TPM group. I hate to burst your bubble, but those guys were just putting around as fan fare for the participants. I assure you, they're weren't riding at more than 50% of their pace.


The reason why you're passing guys on liter bikes is simple: Liter bikes are more of a liability for the average rider. Especially on slower, tight tracks like Thunderbolt.

160hp+ is a LOT of power to slow down and control. Knowing that you're 1/8" away from the eject button can put a cramp on your corner speed.

I've instructed quite a new novice schools, and it always amazed me when guys show up with 1000cc bikes for their first day.

[Daytona.Scott]

Originally Posted by antirich

Yea, i was there, riding in the TPM group. I hate to burst your bubble, but those guys were just putting around as fan fare for the participants. I assure you, they're weren't riding at more than 50% of their pace.


The reason why you're passing guys on liter bikes is simple: Liter bikes are more of a liability for the average rider. Especially on slower, tight tracks like Thunderbolt.

160hp+ is a LOT of power to slow down and control. Knowing that you're 1/8" away from the eject button can put a cramp on your corner speed.

I've instructed quite a new novice schools, and it always amazed me when guys show up with 1000cc bikes for their first day.

Yeah they were clearly taking it easy... I mean I am fully aware of the fact that my riding skill is the limiting factor...

Do you remember the first day on that two-day trackday? 22 crashes was it on the first day?

I remember seeing a guy on a brand new tri-colore in a beginning group total it on the first day...

[antirich]

Originally Posted by Daytona.Scott

Yeah they were clearly taking it easy... I mean I am fully aware of the fact that my riding skill is the limiting factor...

Do you remember the first day on that two-day trackday? 22 crashes was it on the first day?

I remember seeing a guy on a brand new tri-colore in a beginning group total it on the first day...

That Tricolor was fine. Just a few cosmetic issues.

I've seen everything from broken wheels, split frames, and bikes covered in flames. All of which were eventually fixed.

This is my idea of a totaled bike ;-)



Brand new GSXR1000. Just added about $3,000 worth of suspension work. Absolutely nothing was salvageable, even the airbox melted into the intake ports.

[Daytona.Scott]

Holy shit... what's the story on that bike? Did the motor just poof? Or was it a crash then boom