Removing starter motor for track? - Page 2 - Triumph675.Net Forums
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post #11 of 34 Old 11-04-12, 09:26
antirich
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I don't think anyone is making an aftermarket tank for the 675. If they did, it would be really expensive ($1500+). Keep in mind that the 675 is VERY prone to tank damage, so one low side and kiss that new tank goodbye. No carbon fiber slider will save it.

Regarding the starter removal, if that's a bit extream. Te starters arent that heavy and the weight is low on the bike. You'll also need a way to keep the oil from splashing out of the starter mount. And you won't look that cool trying to restart that thing on the grid

A more feasible power increase would be removal of the charging system, or at least the race kit alternator. I have the race kit unit, and noticed a nice increase in power delivery. BUT, you need to be on top of your volts. Anything below 13, and the injectors won't work properly. Unless that race kit unit is working 100%, you could be loosing power.

I have most of the items from your list on my bike. If you have money to spend, then great. But overall, don't expect night and day differences unless your running in the top 3 of your series.

Note that the more race stuff you add, the lower the reliability. 675's weak point is the valve train.
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post #12 of 34 Old 11-04-12, 11:19 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antirich View Post
I don't think anyone is making an aftermarket tank for the 675. If they did, it would be really expensive ($1500+). Keep in mind that the 675 is VERY prone to tank damage, so one low side and kiss that new tank goodbye. No carbon fiber slider will save it.

Regarding the starter removal, if that's a bit extream. Te starters arent that heavy and the weight is low on the bike. You'll also need a way to keep the oil from splashing out of the starter mount. And you won't look that cool trying to restart that thing on the grid

A more feasible power increase would be removal of the charging system, or at least the race kit alternator. I have the race kit unit, and noticed a nice increase in power delivery. BUT, you need to be on top of your volts. Anything below 13, and the injectors won't work properly. Unless that race kit unit is working 100%, you could be loosing power.

I have most of the items from your list on my bike. If you have money to spend, then great. But overall, don't expect night and day differences unless your running in the top 3 of your series.

Note that the more race stuff you add, the lower the reliability. 675's weak point is the valve train.
Yeah I contacted ETI about getting one made and they were saying about $1700 get one made(!). Actually I just ordered a R&G carbon tank protector tehehe.
In terms of electrical system, I will be using Full Spectrum Battery, Kit Alternator, Race Harness and ECU, all of which I think should be voltage stable.
In terms of valve train, would getting a kit gasket affect the valve train due to the increased compression ratio?
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post #13 of 34 Old 11-04-12, 12:32
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Originally Posted by Daytona.Scott View Post
Yes sir. That was the impression I was getting at. Lately I have been getting an impression that superbike class or unlimited class tends to become money pissing contest.
I think you might find the Supersport class is just as expensive if you want to go as fast as possible, BECAUSE the rules are so strict. The top runners will be looking at every area of a bike (top suspension, blueprinted motors, Cryogenics, etc) in order to gain a small advantage.


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post #14 of 34 Old 11-04-12, 13:03
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Originally Posted by Daytona.Scott View Post
Yeah I contacted ETI about getting one made and they were saying about $1700 get one made(!). Actually I just ordered a R&G carbon tank protector tehehe.
In terms of electrical system, I will be using Full Spectrum Battery, Kit Alternator, Race Harness and ECU, all of which I think should be voltage stable.
In terms of valve train, would getting a kit gasket affect the valve train due to the increased compression ratio?
That protector won't save the tank from a good low (or high) side :-(

All of that kit electronics won't guantantee the system is voltage stable. I have the same, and still get a spark from the battery connector.

I don't think running the kit stuff without the stage 3 exhaust is a good idea. I fact, I thinks you'll run into an issue with the stock exhaust Valve.

Good idea to download the kit manual and read up on it. All of that stuff is made to run together and tuning is very critical to get anything out of it.
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post #15 of 34 Old 11-04-12, 13:06 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ruby Racing View Post
I think you might find the Supersport class is just as expensive if you want to go as fast as possible, BECAUSE the rules are so strict. The top runners will be looking at every area of a bike (top suspension, blueprinted motors, Cryogenics, etc) in order to gain a small advantage.
Ah.. damn... Well in terms of suspension wise I think I am covered will full ohlins on 675r :) In terms of motor, I thought we weren't allowed to do any machining other than gasket, valve timing and valve seating.

What do you mean by cryogenics? I have never heard about that on a bike before
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post #16 of 34 Old 11-04-12, 13:09 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antirich View Post
That protector won't save the tank from a good low (or high) side :-(

All of that kit electronics won't guantantee the system is voltage stable. I have the same, and still get a spark from the battery connector.

I don't think running the kit stuff without the stage 3 exhaust is a good idea. I fact, I thinks you'll run into an issue with the stock exhaust Valve.

Good idea to download the kit manual and read up on it. All of that stuff is made to run together and tuning is very critical to get anything out of it.
Oh yeah... I managed to high-side a CBR 250 on a negative camber on the corner exit of a hairpin... I mean it's a CBR so it wasn't going that fast but manage to roll it three times on the side, gouge out 6'' of tramac, broken swing arm, broken clipons, exhaust flew off ****ed up the gas tank.
Luckily, it wasn't mine :) it was a rental through a school program with a full engine cage.
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post #17 of 34 Old 11-04-12, 13:12 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antirich View Post
That protector won't save the tank from a good low (or high) side :-(

All of that kit electronics won't guantantee the system is voltage stable. I have the same, and still get a spark from the battery connector.

I don't think running the kit stuff without the stage 3 exhaust is a good idea. I fact, I thinks you'll run into an issue with the stock exhaust Valve.

Good idea to download the kit manual and read up on it. All of that stuff is made to run together and tuning is very critical to get anything out of it.
My plan was to get a full FMF pipe. In terms of power wise I heard a lot of good things, and saw good things regarding it. I was looking at Arrow Stage 3, it seemed like that it was designed, as it's mentioned in race manual, with full factory kit and with a exhaust port machining (which is, I think, illegal in supersport)...
So would you recommend not going with thinner gasket? Rule requires stock valves...
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post #18 of 34 Old 11-04-12, 13:14 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antirich View Post
That protector won't save the tank from a good low (or high) side :-(

All of that kit electronics won't guantantee the system is voltage stable. I have the same, and still get a spark from the battery connector.

I don't think running the kit stuff without the stage 3 exhaust is a good idea. I fact, I thinks you'll run into an issue with the stock exhaust Valve.

Good idea to download the kit manual and read up on it. All of that stuff is made to run together and tuning is very critical to get anything out of it.
In terms of getting it tuned, I always get my bike tuned at Markbilt NJ whenever I change my bike around... they do some good stuff there :)
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post #19 of 34 Old 11-04-12, 18:37
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Originally Posted by Daytona.Scott View Post
Ah.. damn... Well in terms of suspension wise I think I am covered will full ohlins on 675r :) In terms of motor, I thought we weren't allowed to do any machining other than gasket, valve timing and valve seating.
Well you wont want to be leaving it stock. It may say Ohlins on the outside, but the inside may not be top drawer stuff. You will almost certainly want a revalve and different springs for track use anyway. You might find this topic I posted interesting: http://www.triumph675.net/forum/showthread.php?t=66324

Yes there are limitations to what you can do to the motor, that doesn't mean racers don't do things they shouldn't! I would have thought a blueprinted engine would be a definite requirement.

A 600 is a relatively low powered machine, so any small gain you can get over the competition is going to be needed, even if it's just an extra bhp or two. It's possibly harder to find than on a bigger engine, hence my suggestion that it's just as expensive because it's hard to find a gain without spending money.

There is one free way to get more power though: loose some of your own bodyweight to improve your power to weight ratio. Don't underestimate that, I lost a stone when racing and even noticed the difference on a 1,000.


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Originally Posted by Daytona.Scott View Post
What do you mean by cryogenics? I have never heard about that on a bike before.
Cryogenic Treatment
This is a process to cryogenically treat engine parts to increase engine performance and life. During the process, the engine parts are heated up, then exposed to vapors of liquid nitrogen, slowly cooling the parts to below 200 degrees C.

This process helps to relieve metal stress and creates a stronger, denser, more uniform molecular structure.

The process forces the molecules into a uniform pattern that doesnít allow for peaks and valleys Ė imperfections which arenít visible to the naked eye. Each one of these peaks and valleys can be a potential breaking point. The engine will be more stabilised, the cylinder walls donít warp and crack, it gives less blow by on the pistons, more compression and therefore will give higher horsepower.

The process reduces friction and increases strength, unlocking hidden horsepower in your engine.

Common parts to get treated include:
Crankcases
Crankshafts
Con-rods
Pistons


To read about the transformation click > Project Trixie Transformation

For comparison photo of old R/R with new improved R/R under recall of 2012 click > R/R Comparison Photos
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post #20 of 34 Old 11-04-12, 18:50
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Originally Posted by Ruby Racing View Post

Cryogenic Treatment
This is a process to cryogenically treat engine parts to increase engine performance and life. During the process, the engine parts are heated up, then exposed to vapors of liquid nitrogen, slowly cooling the parts to below 200 degrees C.

This process helps to relieve metal stress and creates a stronger, denser, more uniform molecular structure.

The process forces the molecules into a uniform pattern that doesnít allow for peaks and valleys Ė imperfections which arenít visible to the naked eye. Each one of these peaks and valleys can be a potential breaking point. The engine will be more stabilised, the cylinder walls donít warp and crack, it gives less blow by on the pistons, more compression and therefore will give higher horsepower.

The process reduces friction and increases strength, unlocking hidden horsepower in your engine.

Common parts to get treated include:
Crankcases
Crankshafts
Con-rods
Pistons
You have the process explained wrong... The parts don't get heated up. The cryo process involves slowly cooling the parts to cryo temps from room temperature to cryo temps (-200C), then soaking them in that extreme cold temp for a set amount of time, then bringing the parts back to room temp at a conrolled rate.

Nuno!

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