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Removing starter motor for track?

7K views 33 replies 9 participants last post by  homer 
#1 ·
Hello there!
I have been tinkering with an idea of removing starter motor from my track 675r. Has anyone done it before? I was trying to look up the weight of the starter motor to see whether or not it's worth it but had no luck...
 
#2 ·
How do you plan on starting the bike these bikes are notorious for being hard to push start.
 
#3 ·
IF I do go with that plan, I am planning to get one of this thing built by a local bicycle shop

It's pretty simple and I have a full plan for it :)

However, I am weighing two different options. 1st being starter motor removal
OR ETI Fuel Cell. I have been talking to ETI Fuel Cell about getting custom one built but it's on the quite pricey side. Carbon tank is not an option since they do leak and requires re-coating.

Here are some of the mods I am planning to this winter:
Kit Race Alternator
Kit Race Harness
Kit Gasket
AFAM 520 Racing sprocket & chain
Full Spectrum Battery
Yoyodyne Rear Subframe
SAI Block Off
EVAP box removal
T-3 Air Intake
MWR Air Filter
RSRacecraft rear linkage
Manual Idle Adjuster

All tree-hugger & DOT stuff gone

I will also be getting ridding of Full Akrapovic system for possibly a full custom titanium low exhaust by Race Fit.
 
#6 ·
+1 on Dub. Get your gearing right, a good exhaust, take off the bits you don't need, work on suspension, and tune. All whilst getting faster than everyone on the track. She is a fast, fast bike and everything you need to be the top racer in your class. Save your money for the next bike after you kill this one getting fast enough to need to remove the starter.
 
#7 ·
Yeah I already had my current exhaust (full akrapovic) dyno tuned. In terms of suspension I am going to get it revalved and set. On the other note, when you say gearing, you mean final drive right? Last time I checked supersport (ccs and wera) doesn't allow transmission modifications.
What's your recommendation on final drive ratio?
Friend of mine is running one down in front and one up in the rear for his 675.
 
#9 ·
It really depends on the track. I like 17/48 for the faster tracks and 16/49 (sometimes 48 if its cold) for the more technical tracks like Sears Point. It's best to have a few options for the track/weather. Because everyone rides different, no real answer either. You just have to see what you like.
 
#8 ·
Just removing the starter motor by itself isn't worth it, unless you plan on removing the associated gears/starter clutch (that's where you lose sprung weight, but more important, reciprocating weight). Also, if you're planning on racing, make sure that it's ok by the rules. The weight of the starter alone isn't worth the aggravation of having to restart the bike the hard way after a red flag, etc...

Nuno!
 
#10 ·
Just removing the starter motor by itself isn't worth it, unless you plan on removing the associated gears/starter clutch (that's where you lose sprung weight, but more important, reciprocating weight). Also, if you're planning on racing, make sure that it's ok by the rules. The weight of the starter alone isn't worth the aggravation of having to restart the bike the hard way after a red flag, etc...

Nuno!
Yes sir. That was the impression I was getting at. Lately I have been getting an impression that superbike class or unlimited class tends to become money pissing contest. For instance, for a super sport class all we can do to decrease the unsprung mass is to get a wave-rotor/lighter final drive (aluminum + 520)/ and maybe removing starter motor (which I don't think has much merit), while superbike/unlimited class has an option of Carbon wheels (which I do find quite excessive, but I does have significant performance advantage).

In terms of rules, do you know whether WERA/CSS allow composite tanks like ETI? I have been reading through the rule book over and over again, but didn't find anything on it. As far as way AMA guys go, it looked like they were using aluminum tank (I believe 1.0mm think according Beater tanks). I am not planning to run off and get them but I am just curious :)
 
#11 ·
I don't think anyone is making an aftermarket tank for the 675. If they did, it would be really expensive ($1500+). Keep in mind that the 675 is VERY prone to tank damage, so one low side and kiss that new tank goodbye. No carbon fiber slider will save it.

Regarding the starter removal, if that's a bit extream. Te starters arent that heavy and the weight is low on the bike. You'll also need a way to keep the oil from splashing out of the starter mount. And you won't look that cool trying to restart that thing on the grid :laugh:

A more feasible power increase would be removal of the charging system, or at least the race kit alternator. I have the race kit unit, and noticed a nice increase in power delivery. BUT, you need to be on top of your volts. Anything below 13, and the injectors won't work properly. Unless that race kit unit is working 100%, you could be loosing power.

I have most of the items from your list on my bike. If you have money to spend, then great. But overall, don't expect night and day differences unless your running in the top 3 of your series.

Note that the more race stuff you add, the lower the reliability. 675's weak point is the valve train.
 
#12 ·
I don't think anyone is making an aftermarket tank for the 675. If they did, it would be really expensive ($1500+). Keep in mind that the 675 is VERY prone to tank damage, so one low side and kiss that new tank goodbye. No carbon fiber slider will save it.

Regarding the starter removal, if that's a bit extream. Te starters arent that heavy and the weight is low on the bike. You'll also need a way to keep the oil from splashing out of the starter mount. And you won't look that cool trying to restart that thing on the grid :laugh:

A more feasible power increase would be removal of the charging system, or at least the race kit alternator. I have the race kit unit, and noticed a nice increase in power delivery. BUT, you need to be on top of your volts. Anything below 13, and the injectors won't work properly. Unless that race kit unit is working 100%, you could be loosing power.

I have most of the items from your list on my bike. If you have money to spend, then great. But overall, don't expect night and day differences unless your running in the top 3 of your series.

Note that the more race stuff you add, the lower the reliability. 675's weak point is the valve train.
Yeah I contacted ETI about getting one made and they were saying about $1700 get one made(!). Actually I just ordered a R&G carbon tank protector tehehe.
In terms of electrical system, I will be using Full Spectrum Battery, Kit Alternator, Race Harness and ECU, all of which I think should be voltage stable.
In terms of valve train, would getting a kit gasket affect the valve train due to the increased compression ratio?
 
#23 ·
"Anyway, in the context of this topic it doesn't really matter how it's carried out, rather it's an example of one of the things that can add to the expense of tuning a motor in order to be competitive."


Well, here's a good guide as far as performance. I know of at least two racers who have dipped in the 1:29s with basically stock 675 motors (NJMP Thunderbolt). Unless you're getting close to those times, you really don't 'need' any more engine work. Suspension, set up and experience will carry you much further around that track.

Remember, the DSB Triumphs are doing around 1:23-26, and those are basically SuperStock motors. Although, very well built stock motors ;-)


And this is coming from someone who has done WAY too much work to their bike, and is still far from the 1:29s :laugh:
 
#24 ·
"Anyway, in the context of this topic it doesn't really matter how it's carried out, rather it's an example of one of the things that can add to the expense of tuning a motor in order to be competitive."

Well, here's a good guide as far as performance. I know of at least two racers who have dipped in the 1:29s with basically stock 675 motors (NJMP Thunderbolt). Unless you're getting close to those times, you really don't 'need' any more engine work. Suspension, set up and experience will carry you much further around that track.

Remember, the DSB Triumphs are doing around 1:23-26, and those are basically SuperStock motors. Although, very well built stock motors ;-)

And this is coming from someone who has done WAY too much work to their bike, and is still far from the 1:29s :laugh:
:bowdown: you are so correct sir. I mean nothing can really triumph (pun-intended) seat time...

I only started to ride this year, track only... Got upto mid-upper-pack B/C in Penguin (NJMP) by the end of the season but was getting frustrated by the all the damn traffic jam on the trackdays...

Every time when I want to push myself, I find myself cluster-fucked by other riders... I have no problem with other better riders blazing pass me but I just don't like stuffing slower riders inside...

Do you have any recommendations for trackdays? what organizations/ tracks tend to be less crowded?
 
#31 ·
Guy had a simple lowside at turn 5, Lighting (CCS expert race). Bike spun around in circles, then spun back on track into the blind turn. A pack of riders came up and t-boned the GSXR 1000, right in the gas tank, sending the rider sky high. Bike then turns into a fireball from the impact.

I though it was a fire at the airport, for the smoke cloud was huge.

Bike that made the impact also bounced back and hit my friend who was in the following pack of racers. He was then hit by another rider who was avoiding the mess. Despite my friend being hit twice (on both sides), he managed to save the bike and park it on the armco. Amazing!

We got the impact and resulting mess on video. Wasn't fun for those involved. The fire also melted the pavement. GSXR had a full tank of race gas, for it was a GP race.

Oh, except for some bruised bodies, no one was seriously hurt.
 
#32 ·
My first reaction: What the fuck did I just read.

My second reaction: How could you possibly say all of that but not link to the video. Sounds absolutely insane, all things considered it's amazing everyone got out alright.
 
#33 ·
It's probably not as dramatic as it sounds. Just a racing incident that resulted in flames instead of broken bones. Again, no one was seriously hurt and that's what really matters.

The surprising part was the guy who owned the GSXR. He actually didn't see much of the incident, for he slid off the bike about 50 feet before the collision. In the pits, he was pretty much taking it all in stride, and even joking around with us about it.

Nice to have that kind of money I guess.
 
#34 ·
If its purely for the weight savings, you can do a few other things to remove just as much, if not more weight than the starter.

First, go on a diet and lose 5 pounds. :rofl2:

I'm not sure if you've explored aftermarket wheel options, but a set of carbon wheels will save you something like 5-6 pounds per wheel. Or a really high end set of magnesium wheels are almost as light.

You can even get carbon ceramic brake rotors. You'll save about 4 pounds replacing the front rotors. Not sure about the rear.

So, with carbon wheels and rotors, you'll save 15 pounds of unsprung, rotating mass.

I'm sure with a racebike, you've already done most of the weight saving race mods by now, such as the race fairings that eliminate the headlight assembly and other things.

My point being, removing something such as the starter has a much greater cost in time, convience, and other things that isn't outweighed by the weight savings.

For example, a buddy of mine from high school had an old 70's Ford F150 truck with a big block V8 and air conditioning. You usually don't see air conditioning on vehicles that old, especially on trucks, being how utilitarian they were back then. But in Florida, everything has a/c because it's unbearable without it in the 9 month long summer. But my friend in his infinite wisdom and desire to mod his slow ass truck and make it faster, decided to remove the a/c compressor for "weight savings". It probably weighed 20 pounds, which is nothing compared to the weight of the truck, especially with a big block engine that weighs about 900 pounds on its own. He decided to sacrifice a great deal of comfort and driveability for an imperceptible amount of weight savings. He was a chunky dude who needed to lose at least 50 pounds to get back in shape and he could have done that instead. But at least he made himself a free mobile sauna to sweat out the additional weight savings.

Nevertheless, I like that you are thinking about creative ways to shave weight from the bike.

One last thing: Luckily, the bike comes from the factory with a great deal of fasteners and bolts (mostly for the body parts) that are aluminum instead of steel. This probably saved at least a few pounds. But you could probably replace as many of the steel fasteners with aluminum ones to save additional weight, provided they don't need to be super strong for certain applications. But even then, you can get titanium fasteners.
 
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