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Daytona Handling Issues

5K views 45 replies 13 participants last post by  [Terry] 
#1 ·
Hi all,

I'm riding an 06 Daytona that was unfortunately lowered by the previous owner (unknown to me until it was too late). I've had this confirmed and turns out the bike was lowered by at least 4".

The bike has always handled very poorly and this was confirmed when I rode another members Daytona (Thanks Karl) only to find out I could ride his twice as quick with twice the margin. I.E. Riding mine at 90% and riding his at 60%. His felt like an entirely different bike, not just slightly different. The difference was extreme.

I have since replaced the rear shock entirely with a completely stock one and have replaced the front fork springs with the OEM ones (were 0.85kg now 1kg?)

The bike still does not handle nearly as well as the other Daytona so my question is what else could there be that would cause such poor handling? I've dialed in my suspension and set my sag / preload / comp / rebound and have made minor adjustments as I'm riding but it's not nearly as easy to ride as the other Daytona.

The only difference between our bikes is that his has alloy rims and is yellow. Mine is graphite...

Does anyone have any ideas as to what may cause such poor handling or what else I could try to rectify the problem?

Cheers,
Terry!
 
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#2 ·
This is fairly common with yellow and graphite tonas. Everyone knows that the red one are superior in the suspension and looks departments. I would try and get my hands on a set of red fairings.

Try taking it to a shop that deals with suspension. Where are your forks in relation to the top triple? Are they lowered or raised compared to stock? Do you still have original links on the back suspension? You mention that you replaced the shock, how was the bike lowered?
 
#4 ·
Good questions! Lowered version was running a modified OEM shock that had been internally shortened (spacer I guess?) and a much softer Ohlins spring. A 9.6kg/mm if I'm correct. (My weight is 70kg).

All linkages / triangles are standard OEM parts.

I started with the forks 4mm out of the triple clamp as mentioned in the manual and I am currently running them 7.8mm out (lowered front) to try and get a more aggressive turn in.. Still not turning in properly.
 
#6 ·
how about the tires? old, new? your tires compared to karls tires? if they have a bunch of miles on them they tend to get round. Every time i put on new tires im amazed at how fast the bike steers because they still have a nice aggresive profile.

Was the bike lowered before by moving the forks? if not i would have them checked over to make sure the PO didn't hack any internals up
 
#7 ·
My tires are older than his yeah. Not by too much though so I'd be surprised if they were the issue. They're actually the same model of tire as well come to think of it. It is a possibility so I have a new set on the way which I'll try out.

Forks weren't lowered, they were actually riased. Only the rear was lowered. PO was like a midget almost so they lowered the rear and raised the front to make for a more 'comfortable' ride I guess.

Forks could have been revalved but cannot be sure. I know the springs were changed but I have stock springs in there now.
 
#10 ·
You can lower the bike just with the shock. After all, adjusting the preload will alter the ride height by a bit so essentially a shorter shock and shorter spring will mean that the back of the bike will just sit lower. Think of it this way... if you lift the back of the bike with your hands, the shock extends.. let the back of the bike down and the shock compresses again... now if your shock is shorter it will just compress further.
 
#12 ·
Dogbone is completely stock... measured and confirmed.

Preload, comp and rebound have all been set up on the new shock for my weight.

Forks started out poking out the top by 4mm (as per manual) and are now at 8mm (same as other bike) to try get a more aggressive turn in.. no luck.

Thanks :)
 
#19 ·
His bike turns into corners much easier and holds it's line much better. I can confidently lean on his bike and hit the apex correctly. Mine tends to want to fight you in the corners and the back has no traction. Even slight lean angles cause the back to skip.

were the front forks rebuilt? Its on my to do list to change the fluid and fluid level, it apparently makes a huge difference compared to the stock shit settings.
Fluid level and fluid will make a big difference. I changed the fluid and the put the level back to stock which may not be the best but it is identical to his bike (I checked).

Have you checked to see if the stock spacer was removed from the upper clevis where it connects the the frame? Its the Upside down U shaped thing where the rear shock connects to the frame. There should be a spacer in there.
Stock spacer was still there. I also actually tried adding another spacer to try and get a bit more height in the rear as his bike is sitting about 20mm taller than mine for some reason.

I could be wrong, but i think there is some adjustment to be made in the wheel base. You can stretch it out a little bit if you fit a longer chain and move the wheel back a little on the swing arm. That could be something to atleast check on.
Good point! My wheel is sitting about 10-15mm further back than his is so his shorter wheel base could be it. Wouldn't think it would be such a drastic difference though?

Forks 7.8mm above triple? That makes the bike very twitchy and nervous turning into corners.

Most people flush the forks with triple to gain more trail, especially pre-09 models.
It does make the bike twitchy but it also makes it more aggressive. I.e. less stable on the straights and faster leaning into corners which is what I am trying to achieve. Bike feels a little too 'upright with the forks flush.

Thanks for all your comments guys! I'm sure I'll get there in the end.... hopefully!
 
#16 ·
BULLSHIT.....we all know that red daytonas have more horsepower and speed, they all handle the same except for those freakish AARRRRR's


But we of the white/blue category definitely have the looks department cornered.
 
#17 ·
I could be wrong, but i think there is some adjustment to be made in the wheel base. You can stretch it out a little bit if you fit a longer chain and move the wheel back a little on the swing arm. That could be something to atleast check on.
 
#20 ·
Hi all,

I'm riding an 06 Daytona that was unfortunately lowered by the previous owner (unknown to me until it was too late). I've had this confirmed and turns out the bike was lowered by at least 4".
you didnt notice that the bike was lowered FOUR inches? i dont think my daytona could make it down the street if i lowered it four inches.
 
#21 ·
Unfortunately, at the time, I did not have the correct license so could not test ride. Got a mate to but he said it was all sweet. I was saving for a new one but this one was the kind of deal you cannot say no to... 1200km on the clock, TOR pipe, $12k (as opposed to $19k new (NZD)). Figured she was telling the truth when she said it just wasn't the right bike for her as she was tiny. If I cannot solve this I will sell it and buy another Daytona. And this one I'll definitely test ride!!! :)
 
#27 ·
this is pretty far out there because im assuming if you know how to check oil level in your forks you know how to check your chain tension. Could it be your chain is so tight that your rear suspension is not compressing like it should causing poor traction?
 
#32 ·
OK so I've just been on Race Tech's website looking at springs. The recommended spring rate for me is 9.6kg/mm.

The Ohlins spring I have is 9.5kg/mm so why is it that I cannot get the correct sag using the stock shock and Ohlins spring? The Racetech spring recommended is 8mm taller in height than the Ohlins but that's nothing?

I'm so confused now!!!! :nothappy:
 
#34 ·
I hope I'm not doing it correctly! That would solve a lot of problems haha!

I marked a point on the rear fairing directly above the rear wheel. I then got a helper to lift the rear with me and another to measure from the axle to the point. This is L1

I then kitted up, jumped on the bike, got one helper to hold the front and the other to lift and slowly lower the rear so it settled and then measured again. This is L2

I then did the same as above but got the helper to push down on the rear and let go slowly and then measure. This is L3.

L3 and L2 were averaged to account for any stiction and this we'll call L4.

L1 - L4 is the sag....

Is that correct??
 
#39 ·
Perhaps the dogbone and suspension plates are mounted backwards.

Someone mentioned tyre pressure, I didn't see your answer to that, same for your buddy's fork height, same for the tyres, they can have drastic effects.

You will never have exactly the same feeling on two bikes, but stock should be your objective.

Lowering the bike makes it use more lean angle for the same corner, all other things being equal, lowering the front isn't something to be done lightly. You're describing a lack of confidence which could be down to twitchiness and lack of stability.

Chapin, as the rear shock sags under bike and rider weight, it isn't fully extended anymore, therefore preload affects its length, and ride height ;)
 
#40 ·
Perhaps the dogbone and suspension plates are mounted backwards.
Good point, I'll check. The triangles are on the right way round but I never checked the dig bone.

Someone mentioned tyre pressure, I didn't see your answer to that, same for your buddy's fork height, same for the tyres, they can have drastic effects.
Tyre pressures were checked and confirmed before our ride. We both have the exact same tyres too. Fork height started out as the same (both 6mm pulled through) and mine are now at 7.8mm.

You will never have exactly the same feeling on two bikes, but stock should be your objective.
Yea, I don't expect for them to be identical but the difference is astronomical. It's hard to explain how bad my bike is. Even 80% as good as his handles would be awesome!!

Lowering the bike makes it use more lean angle for the same corner, all other things being equal, lowering the front isn't something to be done lightly. You're describing a lack of confidence which could be down to twitchiness and lack of stability.
I'll maybe put the forks back to 6mm through but it's more the rear that I don't have confidence in. Front seems much better than the rear.
 
#41 ·
I'm still struggling with the bike being lowered four inches with just a shock modification. Doesn't make sense to me. That's a massive amount! There almost HAS to be a change in that linkage somewhere/somehow. Especially if you say the shock is now correct as stock and you are still not set up close.... Something is off here...
 
#43 ·
The thing that's bugging me the most at the moment is that with a stock shock and an ohlins spring that is correct for my weight I simply cannot get my sag below 50mm and it needs to be 30-35mm.

What would be preventing my sag going lower? Mis-labled spring???

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