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Which brand suspension

4K views 16 replies 6 participants last post by  Rink675 
#1 ·
If you were to build another race bike (2009 R1) would you go with an Ohlins suspension or the traxxion dynamics Penske shocks and AK gas charged forks? The gas forks really have me interested, I know Ohlins has the popularity vote for being used on GP bikes and come stock on higher performance Race version bikes but if you were building the bike from stock which brand would you use and why?

I did some reading on gas charged forks and is it really that big of a difference vs regular inverted forks?
 
#2 ·
Living in the US you can't go past Traxxion for quality, price and service.
I think it would take the talent of Stoner or Lorenzo to appreciate the difference between the top products available from Traxxion.
You can pay the extra for Ohlins or go with Penske and their Gas Cartidges, they sell both.
If you live in the UK you can't go past T3 Racing for price and service.
I live in Australia and I used Traxxion AK20 Cartriges and Penske shock on my Fz1 road bike and I used T3 Racing Nitron Valves and Nitron Race Pro shock for my Daytona Track bike.
The price from both these companies was very good, and the service was exceptional.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Can we take a step back and actually talk about the physical difference between shocks? To this point, I have yet to see anyone mention or discuss what exactly makes an expensive shock so expensive. Is it materials? Is it range of operation? Adjustment options? At this point it just seems like a high-end Ohlins is some magical, and expensive thing we praise with mysterious internals that somehow work better than the less expensive options.

Does anyone actually know??
 
#5 ·
We have used both Traxxion/Penske and Ohlins on our race bikes over the last 12 months. That said all of our race bikes now have Ohlins units bolted in place. Traxxion makes a very nice unit and the guys over there are good people as are the guys at Penske. If you are an intermediate paced track day rider the Penske and Traxxion will fit your needs just fine (not terribly difficult to get in the sweet spot).

The thing you get with Ohlins is that their technology is constantly getting updated through their experience and work in GP, WSBK, and AMA. Brian's best time on Ohlins was a second a lap faster than his best time on Traxxion/Penske. His feedback was that he had better feel throughout the entire stroke of the front forks. The complaint he had with Traxxion is that at the bottom of the stroke the feeling was vague. (This was on our GSXR600 project bike that we built this last summer).

We have a 2009 R1 project bike as well and it currently has a TTX on the back and a set of gas cartridges from Ohlins in the front. The biggest complaint about the R1 has been that the frame flexes too much. Here is a picture of the support we had welded to the frame to get it stiffened up.


 
#6 ·
Are you able to go into any more details? Like for instance, what gives the Ohlins better feel? Why do they deliver better lap times? I'm just trying to get an understanding of the actual physical differences between the brands. The theories behind how a shock and spring work (restricting fluid/gas flow in both directions) seems relatively simple, but obviously they are doing other things to make theirs work better, or feel better. Or something.
 
#7 ·
I am not a suspension engineer so I can not give you the exact differences between the internals of the Ohlins and the Penske. What I can tell you is that myself and Brian have both ridden on Ohlins, Penske, Traxxion, and Race Tech in the past. It was easier to go fast on the Ohlins for both myself and Brian. This past summer we took a rider that exclusively ran Penske/Traxxion for the last few years and within 30 mins he was matching his best times on Ohlins suspension that he had not ridden on before. We took Taylor Knapp out to Grattan on our GSXR600 with Traxxion/Penske and after a full day riding he could not come close to the times he was running on the same bike with Ohlins.



Here are the differences that Ohlins announced with their new TTX MKII at the beginning of this year.

New piston ( aluminum) and new piston band ( homogeneous, not open).

· Steel tubes ( both inner and outer tube) “steel tube knowledge” is from WSBK racing

· Back valves are re-designed, with other spring rates to improve traction and tire feel / grip.

· Adjuster housings are visually different. Shim stack for rebound / comp valves are the same.
 
#9 ·
I am not a suspension engineer so I can not give you the exact differences between the internals of the Ohlins and the Penske. What I can tell you is that myself and Brian have both ridden on Ohlins, Penske, Traxxion, and Race Tech in the past. It was easier to go fast on the Ohlins for both myself and Brian. This past summer we took a rider that exclusively ran Penske/Traxxion for the last few years and within 30 mins he was matching his best times on Ohlins suspension that he had not ridden on before. We took Taylor Knapp out to Grattan on our GSXR600 with Traxxion/Penske and after a full day riding he could not come close to the times he was running on the same bike with Ohlins.

Here are the differences that Ohlins announced with their new TTX MKII at the beginning of this year.

New piston ( aluminum) and new piston band ( homogeneous, not open).

· Steel tubes ( both inner and outer tube) "steel tube knowledge" is from WSBK racing

· Back valves are re-designed, with other spring rates to improve traction and tire feel / grip.

· Adjuster housings are visually different. Shim stack for rebound / comp valves are the same.
Hmmm, interesting. Were you able to determine why you could go faster? Faster corner speeds, due to better feel/confidence? Did you even feel faster while riding, or did you just look at your times afterwards and say "wow, faster on the Ohlins."?
 
#10 ·
He said that the Ohlins was giving better feedback through the whole range of the suspension while the others were feeling very vague towards the bottom of the stroke.

The feel of the Ohlins is much more improved and profound is what I got out of what was said.
 
#15 ·
Lot's of research went into that one as well. Had to find a company that could modify the frame "properly", talk to the right people on the stacks and head work, which one of the links to run, which offset to go with on the clamps, which tank to get, and a bunch of other things.

Definitely a fun project
 
#16 ·
I currently run AK-20's front cartridges I have heard that the AK-gas's can be a bit vague, and I know one guy that switched back to AK-20's from the AK-gas's. For me being a club racer I would probably stick with the AK's, they are a lot easier to setup and don't need to be messed with as much as the Ohlins cartridges from my understanding. Plus I know everyone complains about the 30mm kit being a pain for setup compared to the 25mm kit.

For the rear I switched to a JRi from a Penske. I demoed the a shock the beginning of January and I really was surprised how quickly I could get the thing dialed in, within 3 sessions I had better feel for the rear and it definitely seemed to help with my drive out of the corners. I know that I would be able to get the Penske setup just as well, but Tim from JRi is at a lot of the WERA events in the Southeast so I know I could get direct support from the manufacturer whenever I needed it.

I buy what I know I can get support for, my shop is quite happy with Traxxion and having them built up the road is good for my conscious. If the shop I dealt with setup Ohlins or K-tech or GP then I would use one of those I'm sure.
 
#17 ·
I currently run AK-20's front cartridges I have heard that the AK-gas's can be a bit vague, and I know one guy that switched back to AK-20's from the AK-gas's. For me being a club racer I would probably stick with the AK's, they are a lot easier to setup and don't need to be messed with as much as the Ohlins cartridges from my understanding. Plus I know everyone complains about the 30mm kit being a pain for setup compared to the 25mm kit.

For the rear I switched to a JRi from a Penske. I demoed the a shock the beginning of January and I really was surprised how quickly I could get the thing dialed in, within 3 sessions I had better feel for the rear and it definitely seemed to help with my drive out of the corners. I know that I would be able to get the Penske setup just as well, but Tim from JRi is at a lot of the WERA events in the Southeast so I know I could get direct support from the manufacturer whenever I needed it.

I buy what I know I can get support for, my shop is quite happy with Traxxion and having them built up the road is good for my conscious. If the shop I dealt with setup Ohlins or K-tech or GP then I would use one of those I'm sure.
That makes sense, having support for what you buy is always a big benefit.
 
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