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They Really Are Out to Get Us!

4K views 29 replies 26 participants last post by  NakedSaturday 
#1 ·
Well, I took my first ride on the public streets today and WOW what a blast! Though it was fun, I really notice now how much people just don't see motorcycles.

Any defensive riding tips out there other than the ones i learned at MSF?
 
#2 ·
Boy, there are many but just a few I always keep in mind.

* Always be aware of your surroundings, so you have an escape route;
* Be extra careful at intersections and side streets; people tend to underestimate the traveling speed of a bike (or don't see you altogether) and pull out in front of you.
* Try to stay out of a car's blind spot;
* Probably most important: keep your speed down or around the speed of traffic on the fwy. Makes it a lot easier for an evasion maneuver.
 
#3 ·
Here are the best tips I can give you after 50 years of motorcycle riding ....


1: You are invisible. Car, truck, bus, tram and all other drivers can't see you.

2: Don't ride your bike like you drive a car. Use the bike to cut through traffic to get to the front, then go!

3: Aggressive-defensive riding is your best chance of survival. Be forceful, but courteous.

4: Never relax. You need to be 100% awake in traffic. Be aware of what is around you.

5: Ride like every one else is trying to kill you!

6: Get a good set of rear view mirrors so you can see behind you easily.

7: Look ahead. See the gaps. Be smooth, not erratic. Use your indicators. Don't let the cage drivers dictate the terms, slip through them like an eel and get clear road.

Hopefully, you will survive to be a grumpy old bastard bike rider like me...:laugh:



S.
 
#29 ·
Here are the best tips I can give you after 50 years of motorcycle riding ....

1: You are invisible. Car, truck, bus, tram and all other drivers can't see you.

2: Don't ride your bike like you drive a car. Use the bike to cut through traffic to get to the front, then go!

3: Aggressive-defensive riding is your best chance of survival. Be forceful, but courteous.

4: Never relax. You need to be 100% awake in traffic. Be aware of what is around you.

5: Ride like every one else is trying to kill you!

6: Get a good set of rear view mirrors so you can see behind you easily.

7: Look ahead. See the gaps. Be smooth, not erratic. Use your indicators. Don't let the cage drivers dictate the terms, slip through them like an eel and get clear road.

Hopefully, you will survive to be a grumpy old bastard bike rider like me...:laugh:

S.
I will say that riding in Las Vegas, though sounds easy, is one of the worst places int he country to ride. I am constantly using SPIDE and Agressive / Defensive techniques. I also use the bikes power to get away from merging traffic as fast and as safely as I can.

All I can add to this great thread is that never take ANYTHING for granetd! Even the turn into your driveway at the end of a ride.
 
#6 ·
Always assume others in traffic are going to do something that'll completely screw you and plan accordingly.
Stay out of blindspots.
Learn to predict what cars are going to do. If they look indecisive, they probably are and they're probably not paying attention. If a car drifts over to a line, they're probably going to change lanes. Assume they are going to turn without signaling. I personally believe it's better to trust my driving and the maneuverability of the bike and make a move to get away from people whose driving I'm worried about, before they have a chance to do something dumb to me.
If you see someone texting. Get away ASAP
 
#8 ·
THEY ARE STUPID. THEY DON'T SEE YOU, THEY WILL HIT YOU.

If you assume this, I can almost be certain your life expectancy on a motorcycle will be quadrupled. Also at a stop light WATCH YOUR REVIEW MIRRORS AT ALL TIMES.

When coming to a stop tap the brakes to get the brake light to repeatedly flash. Flash the shit out of it. Flash it like you friggen mean it. It has saved me a few times.
 
#9 ·
The old SIPDE rule has kept me out of trouble for many years.

Eventually it becomes automatic and you develop that 'bikers sixth sense' that really does keep you alive.

SCAN - never let your eyes be still. Scan all around you, all the time. If you see a biker who isn't constantly moving his head, you're looking at a biker who doesn't scan enough.

IDENTIFY - identify potential threats well ahead, behind and beside you. Learn to identify events 'unfolding.'

PREDICT - try to predict the possible outcome...if a car suddenly stops, or pulls out, if that kid playing on the roadside runs out onto the road, if that guy behind keeps coming up as fast as he is...

DECIDE - don't waste time. Make a decision based on your predictions about what you need to do.

EXECUTE - no, don't kill the car drivers gangland style, regardless of how tempting this might be. Execute your decision and get out of harm's way. As sp00ky rightly said, often this means getting ahead and into clear space.

And that's about it. Never assume car drivers will do the right thing. Don't even trust them when you've made eye contact. Assuming the worst will help you live longer.



O.B
 
#21 ·
The old SIPDE rule has kept me out of trouble for many years.

Eventually it becomes automatic and you develop that 'bikers sixth sense' that really does keep you alive.

SCAN - never let your eyes be still. Scan all around you, all the time. If you see a biker who isn't constantly moving his head, you're looking at a biker who doesn't scan enough.

IDENTIFY - identify potential threats well ahead, behind and beside you. Learn to identify events 'unfolding.'

PREDICT - try to predict the possible outcome...if a car suddenly stops, or pulls out, if that kid playing on the roadside runs out onto the road, if that guy behind keeps coming up as fast as he is...

DECIDE - don't waste time. Make a decision based on your predictions about what you need to do.

EXECUTE - no, don't kill the car drivers gangland style, regardless of how tempting this might be. Execute your decision and get out of harm's way. As sp00ky rightly said, often this means getting ahead and into clear space.

And that's about it. Never assume car drivers will do the right thing. Don't even trust them when you've made eye contact. Assuming the worst will help you live longer.

O.B
Same here buddy. My eyes are ALWAYS scanning, even if there are no cars around. Where I live, even the wildlife don't see you!

I will also add, DO NOT trust intersections. Even if you have a green light,be cautious. Whenever I go through intersections, I look 3 ways, left, right, center, and I slow down, while covering my brakes as well.
 
#12 ·
Thanks for all of the comments. It really means a lot! I have already put some of this to use. I had a guy almost pull out in front of me today and I had an old lady almost hit me at a stop sign. Glad I read some of these tips before the ride or i probably would not have gotten out of her way in time...
 
#13 ·
PRACTICE emergency braking... A lot! Do it at speeds you will be riding, whether its 25 mph or 100 mph. Learn what it feels like to get the front end to bite hard and have the rear squirm a little. Learn how to do it without doing a full on stoppie... This requires learning what your rear brake can do for you in this situation. Also, make sure your rear brake can't lock up, there are many ways to do this, and the triumph rear is actually pretty good for not locking. This one skill can save your life one day.

Also, never tailgate anyone, anytime. Like others have said ride in the open, make your own space and stay out of blind spots. If you can't see their face/eyes in the rear view, they sure as hell can't see you.
 
#17 ·
PRACTICE emergency braking... A lot! Do it at speeds you will be riding, whether its 25 mph or 100 mph. Learn what it feels like to get the front end to bite hard and have the rear squirm a little. Learn how to do it without doing a full on stoppie... ......

Also, never tailgate anyone, anytime. Like others have said ride in the open, make your own space and stay out of blind spots. If you can't see their face/eyes in the rear view, they sure as hell can't see you.
Good advice. AND Read "Proficient Motorcycling" by David Hough. Work through the practice drills listed in the book which includes emergency stops.
 
#14 ·
+1 to getting in front and being aggressive defensive rider. Also, always act like every car at an intersection is going to turn into you. Be ready for them to turn out.
 
#15 ·
Also- Check the riding skills forum for more threads like this.
Have you taken the MSF course? It should be mandatory for new riders - it will get you thinking about traffic more.
What about other safety classes? Some local law enforcement and highway Patrol Motorcycle Cops offer free classes near me - that focus on rider skill and dealing with traffic issues. Their main objective is to keep you alive so it's focused toward what to do in street situations.

Just yesterday, commuting to work, a cager changed lanes into me on the way to work, and one changed lanes into me on the way back. Neither one raised my heart rate as I caught it unfolding as soon as it started and had allowed myself plenty room for escape.

Always have an escape plan. IE: If that car coming at me turns left in front of me, what are my options? If the cars ahead of me brake suddenly and the one behind me doesn't brake in time, which way is my exit route around the car in front of me?
 
#16 ·
i want to clarify something for you that almost everyone wrote and that is to ride like like every one is out to get you. Now that doesnt translate to ride paranoid cause every one else is out to get you, but to ride 100%aware,alert, and defensive. If you do this you will be ok. Like mentioned above i dont like to be surounded by cars for that reason im either in the front or back away from the cars. Good luck.
 
#19 ·
They haven’t seen you, eye contact means nothing.
Those who have seen you don’t care and will pull out/across/over anyway…
The “motorcycles are dangerous” expression has done much to harm us; any accident is now our fault because they are dangerous and we should know better.
This is obvious bullshit but this is the attitude too many people (some cops for instance) have.

If in doubt back off, ether in traffic or in the hills if you’re not absolutely sure losing 10-20kph can be the difference between saying “that was close” and hearing “help is on the way”

With the new “safety” crap being built into cars they now have thicker pillars to house airbags… and hide motorcycles. Car safety is for them, not us.
Use your mirrors and indicators… Someone has to and they won’t.
After looking in your mirror look over your shoulder, it’ll save your life.
Good gear for commuting and great gear for racing your shadow in the twistys!

Watch for those mummy busses, people carriers, whatever you want to call them… They are piloted by mothers who have 18 screaming kids to herd and not enough sleep. They wouldn’t see you if you rode past stark naked doing a handstand with a roman candle shooting out of your arse.

Truck drivers I find are some of the better drivers out there, bus and taxi drivers are some of the worst. In saying that, it’s bloody hard to see much out of a truck and they take a lot to stop so give them plenty of space.
I have a deep hatred of taxi drivers that would take years of therapy and lithium to soften.

HiVis vests, white helmets and your lights on during the day may work, but chances are that those who wear them are safer riders anyway and statistically it may make little difference. The lights on thing is a moot point as they stay on regardless.

Ride and ride often, ride in the rain and in the wind, ride on stinking hot days and at night. The more you ride the better you get at it.
And training days are always a good idea… I should do another one too.

And to finish, park in obvious, well lit and inconvenient (to others) places. We have beautiful machines and like fine art they should be appreciated by the masses.
It’ll also stop them being parked on or nicked.
 
#25 ·
Not only to cagers not see you and not care, they will also try to kill you on purpose because they dont like that you are passing them, cutting between cars, lane splitting, hanging off the bike, etc. Ive had cagers swerve into my lane head on because i was flicking the bike back and forth on a straight road warming up the tires, ive been leaned over in a corner and had them do the same thing, or on a two lane curve, had them honk at me or swerve into my lane, they have tried to chase me down, brake check me when they are the ones doing 10mph LESS than the speed limit in the left lane, etc.

GEAR UP!!!!! Head to toe buddy. Shit isnt cheap but your co-pay from the hospital bills will cover your gear the first trip.
 
#26 ·
I second the reflective vest comment - especially at night. Looks stupid but saves your life because you light up like a cop car.

I recently got into an accident at an intersection and learned one very, very, very important thing:

GREEN LIGHT DOES NOT MEAN GO!!!!!

look for fucktards who decide to run the red before accelerating away from the intersection... this WILL save your life, as a bike's acceleration will ensure that you are the first thing in that intersection and the first thing that car will hit.

Finally, use your horn - it's helped me out more than once :) that is, before I got the arrow, now I just rev (and honk).
 
#27 ·
a bike's acceleration will ensure that you are the first thing in that intersection and the first thing that car will hit.
unless im feeling froggy, i try to proceed through with a car next to me. ill speed up or slow down to go through with a car instead of alone.
 
#28 ·
Like everyone says be aware. you have to constantly think ok if this car does this i'm gonna do this and so on... Always having an escape plan. People don't see you even when they are looking at you they don't realize your there or how fast your going. 90% of people driving cannot judge traffic flow or speed so be prepared to be cut off. Look for signs of drivers moving yes cars have blinkers but that doesn't mean they use them. If a car is close to a center line they are probably changing lanes. Whenever someone comes close to killing you they will always act like its your fault and be mad at you for that. Don't stick around in the same place too long unless your in a big empty section of traffic. Make a bubble around yourself and if someone enters that bubble go make a new one. There are alot of a-holes that will try to mess with you or even intentionally try to hit you but just remember your on the fastest thing on the road jut twist and go. Always have your bright lights on and even get HID's. when you come to a stop especially at night watch your back. Drivers can confuse your one tail light with that of the car in front of you. If you dont go to the front on the lane at a stop modulate your brakes so drivers coming up on you can see your light flashing and see you a little better. Don't trust other riders they might not be as skilled as you or you as skilled as them ride at your own pace. Dont think because its raining drivers will be sympathetic. It seems to me they are worse in the rain. Coming from a state where lane splitting is legal they drive closer together in the rain and do not want to let you pass. they dont care that your wet and cold while they are dry and warm. Ive been next to peoples windows honking and they wont look at you or move over to let you through. Remember you have less grip and need more braking time in the rain also.

I raced my car a little before I started riding a motorcycle and picked up a lot of ques from that but its a whole other world on a bike. throttle, handling, braking, ... its all different. you have to be even more alert. I think its made me a better driver. I also came from riding years of amature park and street bmx. It gave me a very good sense of balance, braking, and handling. If you dont believe me go carve a swimming pool or halfpipe, or flow an entire park and tell me how different it is. This experience has saved me with balance and handling in emergency situations. I've learned how to adjust my weight when losing traction or even locking up the rear. How to avoid target fixation and have good instincts. But all i can say for all this is practice and I mean good practice, try to avoid bad habbits and learn from someone who knows what they are doing. There's always something new to learn I know I still have a great deal to learn.
 
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